FLOWERS -Le volume sur hiver- đŸŒș Visual Novel Informal Club

Yey~ it only took me 3 weeks to get through chapter 4 :snail:

Chapter 4

Erika’s reaction to being asked if she ever received a love letter is pretty cute, though I don’t recall we ever get to know from who or when.

#noCommentoDa!

Erika would be excited even finding an old dictionary in a random box somewhere.

I didn’t quite manage to understand where exactly the hidden bookcase was located - it seems Suoh finds it when she accidentally drops a lot of books (so it was behind another bookshelf? But why would she not notice before if probably just pulling one book would show something behind?)

Then after Suoh gets picked into the Read-aloud event again



I’ve seen this movie before!

Love how Suoh goes through a number of conjectures before she realizes it’s valentine’s day :laughing:

I’ve never seen someone smooth out calling someone else 銏éčż so skillfully

Oi oi, no cheating on cute Chidori!

And then we have the controversial encounter at night in the library.

To be honest, I never liked the role that Yuzuriha and Nerine get to play in this game
 it just feels sad and awkward, specially with how enjoyable they were as characters in the previous 3 games. Combined with the fact that them leaving at the end of flowers 3 was already strange, it’s even weirder to see them back again. I really wish the author had gone with something different if s/he really wanted to have them back, or just not make them show up again (except for a flashback or something).

The mystery is also a bit weird with the whole “nice to meet you” being used completely wrong in this scenario. English is hard :disappointed:

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Chapter 5

I felt pretty bad for Chidori that kept wondering what happened in the library but no one would give her a straight answer :disappointed_relieved: I feel that she deserved better in this kind of situation.

That being said, the scene where Erika comes back from the hospital and the discussion they have there is one of my favorites of this game.


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As usual Erika with some really funny retorts :joy:

The game keeps pushing the idea that there’s something dangerous lurking, and for that reason Suoh doesn’t want to get her friends involved, but everything feels so hazy, and the very nature of the school makes it feel very unlikely that there’s actual danger of any sort, so it always feels a bit of a contrived argument.

Erika getting hurt is certainly more of a very unfortunate accident, but it’s nice to see that Suoh finally opens up to her friends. For some reason, when we started reading this VN with the club I was convinced that this scene with Erika telling the story about how she lost the movement of her legs happened somewhere in Flowers 2, so I was a bit surprised when it didn’t happen back then.

In the story of Shion and her Amitié I always keep getting confused. Shion looks like Mayuri, but her letters point that Shion was actually more like Suoh, personality-wise. But then later Shion is picked for the festival, like Mayuri.


I thought Suoh’s scary story was pretty good here!



Chidori using Erika’s own words against her :stuck_out_tongue:


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The counter plan to deal with Yuzuriha feels slightly weird. I keep wondering what kind of excuse could Rikka have used to lure out Basquiat out of her room at midnight.

One chapter to go and then the alternative endings
 it’s probably going to take me another month =._.=

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ch5 reply

The way they tell the story through the letters makes it pretty confusing and was hard for me to follow along the first time. It made more sense at the very end for me but the writing had me confused at times. Sion does love bugs though so she might not be too much like Suoh :stuck_out_tongue:

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Okay. I’m a bit stumped. I followed the guide at èȘ äčŸăźéƒšć±‹ă€FLOWERS 曛正 PS4版 Switch版 æ”»ç•„ă€‘ and I didn’t reach the end I was supposed to. Maybe someone can help me

end name spoilers

I was supposed to reach Mayuri end. But instead, according to the end list, I reached GRAND FINALLE and GOOD END.

Supposedly that isn’t possible without reaching
Mayuri end before. Now I wonder how to get Mayuri end.

I’m also still missing Rikka end, but I assume I can get that by following the guide.

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I haven’t played the switch version so I’m not sure how that works. In the original the grand finale is locked until you do the good end, Mayuri and Rikka. Very weird if they changed that.

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They didn’t according to the walkthrough, which is for the four seasons / console version. I think I run into a bug.

Was the Mayuri end substantially different from the GOOD + GRAND FINALLE end? Or just a truncated version of the same?

I plan on doing the Rikka end now (which would be my second playthrough). But I’m not sure how to complete everything.

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The Grand Finale is basically an extended version of the Mayuri end that gives extra details on everything. There are some Mayuri PoV scenes in the Mayuri end, can’t remember if that was part of the grand finale too or not. If you didn’t get that scene, then it is worth trying to get Mayuri’s end for it.

Chapter 6 / Mayuri END


Suoh, that’s a little too close!


It’s very nice that when Suoh is feeling really down the first one that approaches her is Chidori, though sadly she doesn’t manage to do much.


I think this part was really fun. The whole game is always revolving around various fairy tales, and it’s nice how Rikka words of encouragement here, telling Suoh a love story involves a miracle, sort of brings the game itself on the same level as a fairy tale.

I’d say that the Mayuri END is probably the most frustrating ending in the whole series. The game ends, but doesn’t bother explaining absolutely anything - readers don’t know what exactly Suoh and the others saw in the hidden room; everything Mayuri does and says seems to point to a good ending, but then at the last minute and out of nowhere she says goodbye. It’s just too abrupt and very confusing.

Bad Ends

I enjoyed quite a bit the Bad End 01, and the horror story of the warped room where Suoh’s step mother is waiting.

Bad End 02 and 03 seemed pretty straight forward.

Now, Bad End 04 is a bit weird. It doesn’t quite feel like a bad end since Suoh encounters Mayuri eventually at the end, but her whole comatose period is a bit weird from the viewpoint of realism. Still, I liked it quite a bit since it moves things in unexpected directions and it’s not just a “I failed, the end”.

Just three endings left!

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Well. I solved my problem with reaching the end I was aiming for:

Summary

Mayuri END: after completing Rikka END I checked the end list and it now has Mayuri END as well. And I’m fact, when I select that end from the list, it really played out like that when I played the game except for the credits, then it went on to Rikka END.

It’s also strange that the guide has almost all the choices identical for the three playthroughs (although in my case, I got all end with only two play throughs).

Now, after getting all ends, the guide wants me to play some more, just to see all scenes and collect all CGs I think. And I still have to read the 4 koma.

Then I’ll read though this thread.

Then I plan on searching the web and asking here about everything in the plot I didn’t understand. Which is unfortunately a lot.

And at the end I plan on writing down some thoughts about the series as a whole.

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Flowers has really beautifully performed music. I’m glad they spend the money on musicians instead of just using some synthetic instruments.

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So, you read it in English and it didn’t exactly all make sense to you either? That’s a bit heartening.

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I think I hadn’t understood for example the part with the empty room and the shoes (implying that they had committed suicide in the room

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all ends

What shoes? I just re-read the scene and didn’t see any shoes.

The whole secret room thing is still very confusing to me. I get that someone commited suicide in their given that Suoh spoke of “saddest choice” and the mention of Suoh’s step mom (that I think somewhere was hinted at having commited suicide?). And for whatever reason I understand that it must probably have been Sayuri.

But I don’t understand what they actually saw (with their eyes). Or why Suoh afterwards seemed to have understood the true nature of both the tulpa and the goddess (although there was that book with the schools old name). Or how this would allow her to get Mayuri back.

Or why Mayuri apparently regularly hangs out at that secret room. I assume that’s where she was when Suoh was in the art room.

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Reply for ending

It wasn’t in the CG, it was just in the narration where Suoh mentions it. I posted a screenshot in that original message where she talks about it.

Outside of the shoes, the clues to it being Sayuri has to do with the NVL sections when they are reading the letter left behind by her.

Mayuri doesn’t hang out in the room. Nobody goes in there for the most part, they abandoned it and tried to hide it after Sayuri committed suicide there. Mayuri was visiting the art room a few times in the previous games. Earlier in Hiver, Mayuri was just on the other side of the art room when Suoh was there. The secret room is all the way in the library.

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ending

Thank you for the clarifications.

I got to say it’s really difficult to understand. And a lot of information (speculation, really) I can find seems widely inaccurate. Lots of people seem to not quite get things right. (I’m searching in English. Both because I’d like an explanation in English and because searching for “Flowers” tends to bring that up).

I’m not sure why Mayuri would visit the art room. But I think there was an explanation in the game somewhere (if your attention, memory and language level is high enough).

But I assumed she must have been in the secret room because why else would Suoh lean against the wall to get closer instead of going to the room next door and around the wall to actually meet her?

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Some of the stuff I am forgetting but Mayuri went into the art room during Ete a few times because of the paintings she left behind. She originally left some as a clue for Suoh but wanted to retrieve it and try to make Suoh forget about her.

They key to the secret room was in Dalia’s room so Mayuri wouldn’t have had a way to get in there. I believe there was also a descriptive in the narrative when Suoh opened it about how stiff the lock was due to being locked for so many years. The secret room is at the far end of the library in the main school building while the art room is in a different building (the club house).

Suoh most likely didn’t go to the room next door when in the art room due to shock of hearing Mayuri after she was away for so long. Suoh’s mental state isn’t great throughout this game. I’m sure she was afraid if she moved then Mayuri would disappear again. She broke down crying at the wall while talking to her. Mayuri is also much more “athletic” than Suoh. If Suoh tried to leave the art room, Mayuri would have been able to flee easily without Suoh catching up to her.

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I originally wanted to write that down later, but since it came up in conversation, here are a few of my alternative/mistaken interpretations:

All ends

Related to the secret room and Suohs mental state.

About the secret room: I read somewhere on Reddit or such, that the library was in the club house. Which didn’t seem right to me, but I wasn’t confident enough to rule that out. And that person had the theory that the secret room was connected though a tunnel to the house where Mayuri stays.

About Suohs mental state: I regularly had a much worse view on her sanity than was correct in hind sight.

When Suoh first came to Yuzuriha about her head injury and the goddess of truth, I thought she had completely lost it. The goddess maybe was mentioned before, but I didn’t remember her coming up before. And it sounded like a conspiracy and super natural being in a game where everything had perfectly mundane explanations so far.

When Suoh first heard Mayuri in the art room. I thought she was hallucinating. We already know she hallucinates her step mother. My interpretation was also that Mayuri somehow lived there (in the wall) rather then just visiting the room next door.

When Mayuri showed up at the play, I was convinced that this was somehow Suoh projecting the role of the prince onto Mayuri. Likely in a symbolic manner, but possibly in a delusional manner. I thought it was about her resolve or something. And I thought the “fin” was for the game instead of the play. I think the whole scene was much less emotional for me than it was supposed to be/would have been if I had understood it correctly.

Also

automne endings + hivre 4koma

It’s controversial whether or not the twins kissing each other is canon (as happened in an alternative end in automne), right? They also did so in a hivre 4 koma. Which proves absolutely nothing either way. But it’s interesting.

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I still want to write my own “final thoughts” on the series (and ask more plot questions and discuss the characters more. I’m on vacation. I have time). But I’m going through this thread right now, so I’ll respond.

Reply to Final thoughts on the game/the series

In my mind, you are this massive fan of the series. So I have been unsure how I should write my overall impression and opinion on the game. Because I’m fairly critical to aspects of it and I don’t want to say bad things about something so loved.

But it seems like you are fairly critical as well.

It seems like we share our dislike for Rikka. I mean, she is fairly sweet and also comedy gold in most scenes. But when you look at the whole story, she is terrible. I think her blackmail is hard to forgive. And it’s hard to accept how the game tries to pretend that she is just a good friend to Suoh. And it doesn’t really work because it’s pretty much unbelievable she doesn’t still have romantic feelings for her, given how she fan-girls over her. Suoh absolutely should not have forgiven her (so easily and without a proper apology). I kind of do hate Rikka (but again, she is really nice in isolated scenes).

I already said that in automne. But I didn’t like what happened to the characters of Yuzuriha and Nerine. Like with Rikka, they took an, up to this point, beloved character and changed them/revealed a darker side (not as bad as Rikka, though).

And while the scene where Yuzuriha and Nerine first appeared in hivre war kind of cool in isolation, they really overdid this when she sent Erika to the hospital. I mean, it was an accident and the game probably didn’t intend for it be that serious. But when you have a fight, the other person falls, hits their head and you go away without checking on them. That’s potentially manslaughter. Maybe I’m overreacting and people get knocked unconscious in cartoons all the time. But I see this series as more grounded and it’s my understanding that these kind of injuries might potentially be harmless but also potentially be very serious.

Although I thought the scene of Chidori screeming at Suoh was very cool.

Then the mystery stuff: while it’s kind of fun to puzzle things together after finishing the game, almost nothing about it worked for me while playing the game. Even when ignoring the language barrier and the fact that it’s spread over 4 games (most of it is in the final game, anyway), it’s just too obscure with too much only hinted at and not fully explained even after playing through all endings.

Someone wrote a reply to pretty much that exact criticism on reddit: Reddit - Dive into anything

I imagine there might be quite a few players that didn’t like that plot point or liked Mayuri less for it or thought her choosing to be with Allium instead meant that she never liked Suoh that much in the first place. But I have absolutely no problem with it. Both wanting a mom more than a girlfriend (especially when Mayuri is still very young) and looking after someone elderly, I can respect a lot.

Her not telling Suoh about it is a different thing. I think I kind of know why and can understand why. But I think I want to write specifically about that in a later, separate comment.

Just so that this doesn’t get too negative, I’ll also mention a few things I liked.

I liked most of the character writing (with the already mentioned exceptions).

I appreciate the production value. Especially the music. I’m not a huge fan of VN compositions. But I really liked the songs that run during the NVL scenes. And all music was really well rendered. I was admiring all the musical performers during the credits. I’m not a huge fan of the typical background + character format for visuals, but the art was well done.

I loved Erika + Chidori.

I didn’t love Chidori in ete because she was kind of prickly. But I love her in the later games. She is really sweet. She also seems like a bit of an outsider (like she wouldn’t hang out with the gang if it weren’t for Erika), which I somehow really like because she isn’t really part of the drama.

Erika is such a good friend to Yuzuriha and Suoh in automne and hivre (making her confrontation with Yuzuriha in hivre all that harder to swallow).

Erika + Chidori flirting is sweet and funny. I really like seeing an established relationship (that’s somehow rare in fiction, especially with a younger couple). And for whatever reason I really liked that they kept their relationship semi secret (seems much wiser than what Suoh and Rikka/Mayuri did in printemps). And I liked the hints that Erika has feelings for Daliah and Suoh and Chidori has somewhat justified jealousy, but it didn’t seem like the relationship is doomed and the game was ok with just letting that aspect of the story open (I think the game made Erikas commitment clear to the player, but we didn’t get a scene where Chidori gets reasured).

The voice acting was fantastic. I kind of wish there were more of those emotional and dramatic scenes.

Maybe most important for my enjoyment was that it felt very different from anime/manga or live action (not that I watch much live action). That’s true for both for the art and the voice acting.

I mean, there is lot’s of great voice acting in anime. But after a while it feels like there are only few voices in anime. And it really felt like I hadn’t heard most of the voices from Flowers in anime before. It’s rare to in anime to have voices that are a bit deeper but still girlish like with Mayuri. You already mentioned your appreciation of Rikka’s VA. And I don’t feel like I heard Suohs voice before. Erika’s VA is an exception. Her performance was still very good, but I think I have
watched at least five anime staring her VA just while playing the Flowers series.

My (not so serious) ranking would be: Automne, but only Erika, Chidori and the twins > Printemps, but without Rikka > Ete > Hiver, but with an additional story guide that explains everything.
Or if I have to take the games as they really are: Ete > Printemps > Hiver > Automne.

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It is easily my favorite series of all-time and Suoh is my favorite character but there are things I wish were done differently in the series. It’s always good to be critical, no need to hold back.

I am fairly sure I know that person from discord and they are a huge Hiver fan. I don’t necessarily agree with all of their takes though :stuck_out_tongue:

I know Erika’s VA is super popular but I think I’ve heard her voice the least amount in anime/VNs. I don’t really watch as much anime now as I did 10-15 years ago though. Suoh’s VA is in a ton of anime and VNs but she always does a super unique voice its hard to recognize her without looking at the cast list. The entire main cast has been in a lot of stuff, especially Yuzu if you play VNs (think she’s been in like half of the ones I’ve read). But yeah, I do love the entire cast, they all did great in their role.

I am glad you joined us in reading this though. I always like reading people’s thoughts on the series as a whole!

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I actually had put a small probability on the theory that you are the same person.

I looked her up. She seems to have lots of smaller roles and also roles in older anime. I think the only significant role of her I know is Kazuho from Non Non Biyori. And it’s really hard to connect this lazy older sister voice there with the super sweet and soft spoken Suoh.

Funnily enough, the first clip I found on YouTube (https://youtu.be/RQ6Hgv-YFY8?si=u9acWPaiyzJqpTiz) was a scene with her and Natsumi, voiced by Sakura Ayane the VA of Erika. Illustrating my point that Erika is everywhere. And she is super easy to recognize. Also, Natsumi is listed as a main character and Kazuho only as supporting. It’s funny to imagine that clip being Suoh and Erika doing yet another reading or play, though I doubt Suoh would be that good of an actress.

Is that a character (Yuzuriha) or a VA?

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