Evaluate your skills in the language

[leandroeidi]

Ever since this guy made that video criticising Wanikani while praising Remembering the Kanji, not acknowledging that WK uses everything that makes RTK good and adds more stuff to become great, and also most of the things he complained about made no sense, I just can’t take seriously anything that he says.

[nbeck0212]

@Radish8

I don’t have any insight to the method posted by the OP, but just wanted to point out that the CEFR is recognised as not being particularly translatable across all languages; it is the European Framework of Reference, after all. It doesn’t really take into account things like the acquisition of different alphabets, for example.

The language school I attend uses the CEFR to rate the levels of many of its languages, but deliberately does not use it for e.g. its Japanese, Chinese, Arabic courses (or at least pairs it with something else).

I do agree that a framework backed by research would be something you could use with a little more confidence.

I’m not familiar with the CEFR in-depth, but the Japanese Foundation used it to create their “JF Standard for Japanese-Language Education”.

@Radish8

But yes, I’d be interested to know if there’s a more rigorously-produced framework out there for Japanese or perhaps a broader group of languages.

I would say that you could use the ACTFL Performance and Proficiency Guidelines as this framework, as it’s used for a wide variety of languages, including sign language, and has been rigorously-tested (see quote below). Additionally, at least here in the US, ACTFL’s guidelines are used to assess AP language tests, including the AP Japanese Language & Culture Exam.

@SyncroPC

In case anyone is wondering if there is a nice framework for Japanese based on actual research, there is a real study group for applying OPI to Japanese who has been active for quite a while. Their website is totally Web 1.0 (but that is real Japan, right?), but it does have a lot interesting material detailing the framework and how tests should be applied (since it is oriented to teachers and researchers).

For more information about the Oral Proficiency Assessments, there’s this ACTFL page as well.

Happy to discuss further! As a former high school Spanish teacher, I’ve done a fair amount of research into these things, and enjoy discussing stuff like this :D.

[OmukaiAndi]

i’d hope so. unfortunately, that’s not often the case.
personally, i don’t know the guy, and i’ve been studying this language for almost a decade… so i guess it doesn’t matter anymore anyway.

[Ncastaneda]

Actually even though I don’t need the JLPT , I miss someway other than understanding specific content to mark my progress, it’s quite easy to fall into the Dunning-Krugger effect attitude with shows and books, specially with series. I might understand something, and then progressively understand more and more of that specific material… And then changing the content (new show for example) to be bathed in the cold reality of how much I really suck …
Last time for me was starting to watch the news everyday. So proud I was that recently I was watching 名探偵コナン (Detective Conan ) no subs… and it was so clear…heck I could even solve the cases without the little brat telling me who did what with what weapon …
Then then the news came… … and watching three editions during the day I wouldn’t get most of those… (I know it’s expected… not less soul crushing though ).

Anyway, I’m progressively interested in seeing progress in some objective way. Either self assesed or asking someone. I don’t have an specific goal… just a very lax timeline, so I’m guessing this way It will feel less daunting until reaching the next cornerstone .

[Radish8]

@nbeck0212

I would say that you could use the ACTFL Performance and Proficiency Guidelines as this framework, as it’s used for a wide variety of languages, including sign language, and has been rigorously-tested

Yes, and it looks like an extremely comprehensive framework as well, from a brief look at it!

[Leebo]

Wow, so there is a Japanese speaking test that exists in some regard. That’s really neat.

[SyncroPC]

There is also JSST, this crazy thing you call a telephone number and answer recorded questions. Although it is obviously not as good as a real interview such as OPI where the tester can change the questions on the go as they assess your level, their score report was surprisingly detailed, with one full paragraph describing each of your competences (grammar, pronunciation and so on) and what you could do to improve.

[Leebo]

Nice, I’d be interested in trying both. Speaking is my weakest area, so it’d be nice to have something to actually aim for. And I just want to try all the tests I can eventually.

[SyncroPC]

I don’t really want to try all the tests I can, but it seems my company’s 人事 wants me to do so, so here we are. At least I get to know about a lot of things I otherwise wouldn’t… I guess?

[Leebo]

Well, I’m a weirdo who likes taking tests. It’s nice that Japan likes giving tests. It’s a good pairing.

[Leebo]

lol, there is a kanji mistake on the JSST page that describes the Level 3 evaluation criteria.

株式会社アルク

It says

全体としては比較的性格な文を作っていますが、言い終わるまでに時間がかかります。

But, 性格 should be 正確.

[SyncroPC]

Let’s test the testers and bring the system down. Riot now!