It’s pretty closed right now LOL
(Yes, I know Biden got in, but he’s the President. It’s not like day to day people are getting in…)
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It is what you make it. Like what many people said already, Japan does have problems like any country, and its easy to let that take over. But, the more you go off the beaten path and try to speak Japanese the better the country is.
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I’m glad I do look Japan not thur an all shiny and fetishized way but it’s also important not view Japan as the opposite. One can look at reddit or what not to see who have become jaded, sorta a self fufilling prophecy, people that hate JETs, ALT, international sutdents and what not.
While I’m not that I don’t see why people bother with that, it’s pathetic to waste time putting down people
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It’s definitely a good thing to realise Japan is no paradise. I live/work in Japan and have had a few spells of “why am I here / why did I learn this language again?”. But as others are saying, nowhere is perfect, and there’s a lot of problems in my native UK too. When I first moved here I think - even if I wouldn’t have admitted it to myself - I had a ludicrously idealised view of Japan, but breaking that illusion isn’t a bad thing. It’s growth.
Kinda echoing what others have said, but I would encourage you to remember why you started learning Japanese in the first place; I imagine it wasn’t because of Japan’s pioneering advances in social progress. If you still want to learn despite your awareness of all the flaws about this place then you’re in a much better position IMO.
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Every country in the world has its problems – there’s no paradise on Earth. Unless you want to be depressed, I would get off of Twitter and the news. Reading those things in any language is only going to make you miserable about the state of humanity.
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This one person is disillusioned by Japan and says that China is going in the right direction? Why are you listening to such CCP propaganda?
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So many people have already made great points so I’m sorry if I’m just repeating things previously said, but in my case, I’ve been living in Japan for 2 years and my impression of this country has never changed. I was realistic about life here from when I first started considering living here, and because of that I never fell into the trap of imagining Japan as some utopia. Like any country in the world it does some things well, and other things not so well. And for many people who place Japan on a pedestal, they fail to consider the bad aspects until they get here and their fantasy is shattered. That’s not Japan’s fault though, although you could argue it’s a result of how well Japan has hidden its bad stuff compared to other countries.
Every experience is different and other people’s negative experiences living here are certainly valid, although it really seems like there’s a counter-culture echo chamber around slandering Japan and people’s fantasies of living here that is just absurd. People need to be more realistic about this country, but a lot of the critical circles online are just toxic people being toxic. Nothing more.
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I totally understand and share your feelings. Several times during my studies I was like “why am I doing this??” because all of the sudden, everything about Japan felt so negative and I became disillusioned.
That’s not a bad thing though. Now that you have passed the stage of idealising this country, you can visit it and see it from a different angle. We as humans tend to dwell on the negative. But there must be so many things that got you into Japanese and Japan’s culture. Remember these things. Japan has a lot to offer, as any country does, but it’s also important to acknowledge the issues.
Also, not every negative aspect about this country might affect you. Bullying in school is a major topic, but do you still attend school? Maybe you’ll never work a corporate job here and freelance instead, so you’ll never experience the Japanese working conditions here. You see what I mean? Of course, that doesn’t change that these issues don’t exist just because you never experienced them. But also do not expect that every societal etc.issue here will affect you.
It’s all about what you will make out of your stay. Be aware of what is going on around you, speak up about it if you feel like its needed, but do not dwell on it and let it sour your whole experience. Ask two people and they’ll tell you a whole different story about their lives here.
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A while ago I remember watching this video by laowhy on his experience living in China and I feel it really hits the nail on the head. Economic development doesn’t equal going in the right direction, and China is a prime example. Well, unless you’re a fan of authoritarianism and extreme nationalism.
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I mean ultimately People in Japan are People. The point of learning the language is to engage with others and material that comes from there. I wouldn’t be discouraged, but I know how you feel. Like it is a giant time sink, but what is it all for? Ultimately I do have use for it in my everyday life but some people just dont outside of enjoying the stuff they already like a little more. A big problem of mine is I get too in my head about what I want and not what I’m doing. So focus on what youre doing now and let your new found skill take you where it may.
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The drive to learn a second language is my biggest motivator.
I dropped out of my university Japanese class because I never thought I’d go to Japan and Japanese is only spoken in 1 country.
Long story short.
Several years later I became a teacher, moved to Japan, and have Japanese inlaws.
In regards to the negative aspects to living abroad, of course there are negative things about every country. But I know I’m personally way happier here than in my home country. Yeah it’s a little terrifying thinking how people’s view of me might change as I become less cute and unable to work. But now I got family here and just want to live a quiet sweet life. Hope that makes sense.
Learning a language that is classified as a difficult one for English speakers, that’s tough for me. I cope by complaining about it on wanikani actually lol. But really before I die I have to have to have to be bilingual.
Others are probably going to put these points better than me. Let me know if you have any questions. I’m not the best at writing.
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Doesn’t the so called western world span at least three continents, dozens of countries and many more cultures? How can you feel comfortable making broad generalizations about such a large and diverse group of people? Claiming that “the majority of people from the west hate everything they don’t like and want it destroyed” is as unnuanced and judgmental as what you’re claiming “people in the west” are like. So maybe you have that in common with whoever you’re describing. Just saying.
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Heyo! Lots of good points and musings from the above reply posts, some of which I relate to and some of which I don’t.
To answer your question of
I began my relationship with Japan not out of any particular love for the country but from a need to change my life. At that time I couldn’t have cared less about Japan, or Asia in general, in part thanks to a degree of xenophobia towards Asia blessed unto me by the society and culture I had been born into (a President Bush-era advert depicting U.S. citizens forced to learn Chinese comes to mind).
Midway through college I realized myself as both listless and miserable, with no sense of a future. So on a whim I decided to study abroad. I sought to get as far away from the life I knew as physically possible. The Japan study-abroad program was as far away from home as my college would take me, and voila. I started learning Japanese so I could survive the four-month abroad session without getting lost.
In the course of my time preparing to visit Japan I made some Japanese friends to make sure I knew some folks savvy in Japan’s language if an emergency occurred. Eventually, over the course of spending time with them in Japan, I felt discomforted–even embarrassed–by these friends’ having to speak English. I decided to continue learning Japanese so my friends are not always required to use English when we communicate. They have been so gracious in accommodating for me, I can do the same for them.
In the course of learning Japanese my life has revolved more and more around Japan and its culture then I ever expected before college. I hope to use the language to access job/payment options I cannot get in my retail-or-factory-work oriented hometown. I hope to live and work in Japan someday.
I short: I deal with all the dismay you mention by focusing on both learning Japanese as a means to thank my friends, and as a way to achieve my hope of living a life more fulfilling than the one my current living situation permits.
To Hell with Japan’s own xenophobia issues. To Hell with the nation’s current reengagement with militarism. They are issues far larger than my ability to engage with them. I have no love for them. They bare no fruit for me. Why should I focus on those issues now? When I am able to hold a conversation with my friends in their native tongue, then I will turn my attention towards the larger issues. Until then, I keep learning and practicing what I can engage with, despair be damned.
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Find a conversation partner. This takes persistence and ingenuity, but succeeding means finding a friend with whom you can discuss common interests and explore your respective cultures with each other. I became best friends with my conversation exchange partner. We’ve been speaking weekly 3 years now.
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Choose Japanese reading material carefully based on interests and avoid everything else. ASK graded readers and Satori are great. I avoid any manga in a school setting, horror, etc. Polar bear cafe is an example of wholesome manga that isn’t depressing. It’s part of a genre of feel-good manga, so maybe explore that (search for the Tofugu article about Polar bear cafe if interested, I can’t remember the name of the genre)
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I know what you mean. Before I begin, I just want to let you know first that I don’t like telling people what to do, or provide advice as I don’t know too much in detail about what you’re going through, so everything I’ll say from this point forward will just be my experiences so far. Experiences that I’m sharing with you.
I may not be able to relate to everything you’re going through now, but I think I can relate to some of what you’re going through. In the early honeymoon stages of my Japanese learning, I wouldn’t say I had a idealistic vision of what Japan is like, I merely begun to fall in love with the language and the more I learned it, the more rewarding it became as I begun to understand more of the anime and manga. I honestly wasn’t that serious about learning it back then, I was only learning it for fun… until I stopped, then came back to it… and that one year turned into a few years of learning… and now I’ve recently just begun N2 content. In other words, without even realizing it, very gradually I fell in love with the language.
Back then, I already knew that Japan had its weird perks and other flaws, but I chose to ignore it and just focused on studying as well as the anime and manga culture of it. You could call it looking at the bright side of Japan I suppose. It didn’t really matter to me at the time. But just like you, the more I learned Japanese, the more you would inevitably have to learn the culture as well as its social problems. And some of these social problems I was already aware of, but kind of looked away. And over time I realized that Japan had even more social problems that I wasn’t even aware of, more than I initially thought or knew about. And I came to the conclusion that you know what, maybe it’s better I just continue learning Japanese in my own country, with my Japanese language school, which was the only immersive environment for me. Give up on my dreams of even living/working in Japan, and just stay in my own country, where it’s safe. It also didn’t help that when I tried attending many language exchanges, it just never worked for me. It wasn’t the language barrier that was the issue, it was reading the air. I’ve been misunderstood and as a result, got angrily told off by a Japanese native, (which resulted in a whole day of crying) been ignored, etc. I never made any Japanese friends, as I never really found anyone I clicked with.
Speaking of which, there were doubts and questions surrounding whether or not I’d even be able to make friends or form meaningful relationships in a homogenous Japanese society. I like to be open-minded, I’m also someone who will politely tell you straight forwardly what I think (my friends say they feel like they don’t have to guess what I’m thinking or feel I have ulterior motives as I don’t beat around the bush and get straight to the point), and I have a bright, warm personality, which contrasts the more cold, conservative, non-expressive Japanese people. On top of that, I even struggle with mental health issues such as depression and anxiety (although I’ve mostly recovered) and I’m very open about these struggles. I also am the kind of person who thinks philosophically and loves forming deep, meaningful relationships with people.
So how can someone like me, who dreams of living in Japan, ever find any friends or find a place in Japan where I belong? In a country where mental health is stigmatised, expressing your emotions outwardly can seem childish and selfish. Where reading the air is so important, and that it’s better to beat around the bush and not be so direct when conversing at times? Heck, how can I even work in Japan, when the work culture isn’t the best, and isn’t something I’m confident enough to be able to commit to? Will I even find a place in Japan? To this day I don’t know. But I will say this:
When I switched Japanese teachers, I met a teacher who had lived in my country for a long time, and had a tremendous amount of experience teaching Japanese to various age groups. As a result, not only was he very Japanese (extremely polite to me, using keigo even though I’m his student, tremendously humble when praised) he also has a westernized point of view as well. Because of that, I was able to open up to him about everything I was afraid of if I were to go and live and work in Japan. He understood what I meant, listened and simply provided his perspective from a Japanese native point of view on many topics we spoke about. (We always go off topic in class lol). For example, he would talk about how he still gets surprised and shocked over certain things, despite how many years he’d been living in my country. Like the signs near bus drivers, on retail shops or advertisements that talk about how verbal abuse is not ok. He talks about how you’ll never find it in Japan, but ever since he came here he was surprised because to him, it was all common sense. Of course you shouldn’t disrespect people like that.
And so on, and so forth, every class, we would always exchange and compare our perspectives on things between different countries, like for example, how he would often see people riding on bicycles with one hand holding the umbrella on rainy days in Japan. Which is dangerous isn’t it? But in the country that I live in, you definitely don’t see that, but I did mention to him at the time about how I saw three teenage boys all sitting on top of each other riding A bicycle (yes, A bicycle) none of them with a helmet on. So according to my teacher, Japanese people won’t wear raincoats and would rather hold an umbrella because they care about their appearance, whereas in the country I live in it’s the opposite and well… you get what I mean. It’s also not that perfect either.
It’s through these conversations I had with him that my eyes really began to open. Although I always knew that Japanese people valued humility which is so ingrained in the language, I never actually appreciated it until I really started to compare it to my own western culture that I lived in. cough entitlementcough We would both, without judgement, talk about the strengths and weaknesses of these cultural traits and compare them. And gradually, the good things I already knew about Japan, I began to take note of them and appreciate them more.
Then I started to think, what if there was Japanese person who was learning English and really wanted to come and live in my country? What would they be afraid of? Would they be shocked to see three teenage boys riding on a bicycle without helmets on? probably would though just like how my teacher was
Recently I also started to find hope as I managed to not only watch various youtube videos detailing about the many social problems of Japan, I’ve also been lucky to find some videos where for example, a Japanese lady was interviewed about her experiences with ADHD, and how she set up a youtube channel where she openly educates and shares her experiences, in order to help those in similar boats as her. And with the rising problem of abandoned elderly Japanese, living alone and passing away alone in their homes, there is a Japanese company who developed an app connecting language learners to the elderly Japanese people, to form meaningful connections. As well as exchange cultural views and values and things about their country. I was pleasantly surprised to meet some of them, who just wanted to chat, despite my language ability, and who were also so open to learning about my own country.
And well, after I started to gain the courage to acknowledge the dark side of Japan, I went out of my comfort zone and applied to participate in a speech contest. I got through to the 2nd stage, and during that time, I was living alone, juggling between work, speech contest, and everything else and it was all too stressful. So for the sake of my dreams of living and working in Japan, I decided to quit my job, even if it means that I may not even win the speech contest and win a chance to get an internship there. Because it was THAT important to me. This was a pivotal moment in my Japanese language learning journey that demonstrated just how far I would go for my dreams, despite everything else. How much I loved Japanese.
So back to your question. How far can your love of the Japanese language take you? Can it carry you through the frustration indefinitely, and will it ever be enough? How do you deal with it?
In short, there’s not really a one answer fits all for those questions. (at least imo) For myself though, it was by connecting and talking about it with the right people, like my Japanese teacher and other open-minded natives, was I able to gather the courage to acknowledge not only the best parts about Japan compared to the western culture but also the dark side of Japan as well as it’s other social problems. As well as face them head on, instead of ignoring them, accepting them, both the good and the bad. And I dream that one day, in whatever work I do in Japan, that I will be a bridge that connects Japan with my country, sharing my perspectives so that we can exchange our worldviews and grow as individuals.
And how far can that love take you? Well, I haven’t been to Japan yet, and who knows, perhaps I’ll be disillusioned like others who have lived in Japan in the end. So with my newfound courage, I’m willing to see how far it takes me, and perhaps when my love of Japan is tried and tested over time, will I find out how far it will go.
sorry about the awfully long post but if you read up until here, thank you <3
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I do agree with you, but would like to point out something about the “Manga focus on the good side” Statement:
I read a lot of manga, and it is the asprect of the culture that got me interested in Japan, and also the resouce, that made it clear for me, that it has down sides.
Lots of school mangas focus on the pressure, the bullying, the long hours of learning just to go to a good colleage.
Lots of adult or even isekai Manga focus on the overwork, the bullying an the pressure to marry and so on.
In my opinion, if you read a lot of manga, you should notice its not a dream country, but has its ups and downs like any other country.
(I am sorry, for misspelling)
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This is probably more likely cultural humility, can’t imagine a graded reader saying the other way around with a nationalistic message even if true, lol
Wait until パリ症候群 starts
Talk with natives that have actually lived abroad extensively on what they struggled with and what they miss about home…basic stuff like overall safety comparatively come to mind. Expectations of common courtesy you grew up with or great customer service are long gone and nothing will run on time…all stuff taken for granted…and will pay alot more for your favorite native foods at a fraction of the quality. Or not having access to a public bathroom when you need one…and certainly not a clean one.
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In most cases, the experiences you have in a country are what you make of them. You can learn Birmanese, try moving to Myanmar and have a great time there if you did it correctly. And Japan is a much “better” country than Myanmar by any comparison.
If you go there to teach English with average wages, no plans for what comes after that, no ambitions to work towards, no social circles there to spend your time with nor the social skills or language proficiency to find them, then that’s not Japan’s fault, it’s your fault.
Every country has flaws, and Japan is obviously no exception. If you’re putting your eyes on everything that’s bad about Japan, you’re bound to end up with a pessimistic mindset. You can ruin every country in the world for you that way.
I genuinely believe that at the end of the day, whether your memories of a country turn out good or bad, it’s completely up to you. Think about what aspect of Japan would make you happy and make it happen.
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All I can say is that I still find Chinese and Russian cultures fascinating, even though I think both countries currently have shit governments. Nothing is perfect, and Japan is no exception. The fact of the matter is that something about Japanese culture drew you to invest hours upon hours of studying. I think how you handle this disillusionment will say more about you than the culture itself. That is also to say there is really no right answer, except for what you ultimately decide to do with unpleasant news.
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