(The increasingly less) Daily senryu thread

I agree that between こ (訓読み) and ジョウ (音読み) for 娘 , the former certainly works better for a clean 5-7-5 川柳 structure. However, according to goo.jp, the 訓読み reading means girls or daughters, whereas the 音読み reading can be used for both woman (as in 女子) and girl. I chose the meaning that best suits the 川柳, but, since you mention it, that may not be quite right as the kanji by itself is usually pronounced in 訓読み.

Let me see if I can get it clarified by a native speaker…

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妻の友来て当てもなく家を出る

つまのとも・きてあてもなく・いえをでる

When my wife’s friend
visits, I leave home:
“Exit, stage left…”

4-5-4
Translating 当てもなく within the syllable count proved to be challenging, and I settled for something vaguely similar in meaning. The husband slinks away, aiming to leave “without drawing attention.” Implied is the sense of an “exit,” rather than a specific destination to get to.

3 Likes
  1. 妻の友来て当てもなく家を出る

つまのゆうきてあてもなくいえをでる

my attempt: o7

When my wife’s friend comes,
I leave the house
all of a sudden

another idea:

My wife’s friend is here!
Ah… time to leave the house.

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I am just starting to actually try to read things now, my grammar is likely laughable, but hopefully this will help!

  1. 妻の友来て当てもなく家を出る

あたもなくあたもなくいえをでる

My wife’s friend arrives at random, leaves the house.

That’s way too literal, I imagine the more poetic version implies something closer to “My wife’s friend comes here at random, when will she leave again?” That feeling of “ugh, someone is in my home and I just want to relax! When are they going to be gone?”

Upon checking some of the other answers, I see I have likely missed the implied subject at the end. The use of the て form also confused me a bit, at least I think that’s what’s happening in 来て? I only learned 来る about a month ago and 家 yesterday, so I was just super stoked to recognize anything!

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妻の友来て当てもなく家を出る
つまのとも・きてあてもなく・いえをでる

5-6-5 (at least it’s symmetrical, right? :smiley:

Wife has friends over
Time for me to leave and
Wander aimlessly

Interpretation

For me, the senryuu captures the feeling of not knowing where to go when you can’t go home, and just wandering around without a goal (literally 当てもなく).
I also put friends in plural, that just seemed more likely to me, but open to interpretation in Japanese of course ^^

3 Likes

Friday, August 5, 2022


Previous senryu

  1. 妻の友来て当てもなく家を出る
    つまのとも・きてあてもなく・いえをでる
    Wife has friends over / Time for me to leave and / Wander aimlessly

Notes:

  • I went with the 16 syllable version this time since it seems to capture the feeling best (without feeling too wordy). This version captures the vibe of 当てもなく pretty well.

  • Welcome @macha1313! I know exactly what you mean. It’s incredibly fun and motivating when you’re able to read all or most of these. It’s why I started the thread: nice bite-sized but whole-thought fragments of the language that cover a LOT of ground both grammatically and culturally. In my case, I’m unsure how much of it is daily senryu and how much is just from getting to higher levels on WK, but either way (or both) my reading ability has improved leaps and bounds since starting this thread. I also learn something new almost daily from @Myria and others! (laugh)

  • Another good point: not only does Japanese tend to leave out subjects, plurality is also open to interpretation. It still amazes me that my German and Japanese friends both say the other language is fairly easy for them to learn to pronounce, while the languages are so different otherwise. From my tiny little bit of high school German a million years ago, my interests in technology and precision, and countless jokes, the German language is all about precision with little (unintended) ambiguity. (Polite) Japanese is almost entirely subtleties, indirection, and implication with almost nothing stated directly! At least I’d be surprised if German has one word that can mean to go, to come, to stay, to welcome, or even to exist like いらっしゃいます!

Current senryu challenge

Volume: Intense

  1. 陽当たりのよいマイホーム昼は留守

I’m completely mystified by this one on first read despite knowing the words!

Hoping you folks can clue me in. My best guess is the sad feeling of leaving home in the dark and coming home in the dark (which I remember from parts of my career, especially in the winter months).


Remember to please use the spoiler tag with your translation attempts! Also, please include the reading in kana with your submission.

Everyone is encouraged to participate, no matter your level! Questions and comments are as valued as translation submissions.

Please try not to be disappointed if your translation isn’t selected or if you disagree with the daily choice: the judge isn’t terribly consistent with his grading (and has awful taste!).
Online tools like dictionaries, sentence databases, and even AI translation engines are fair game and can be extremely helpful. Yomichan is particularly handy if you use the Chrome or Firefox browser. The 語源(ごげん)由来(ゆらい)辞典(じてん) is also an excellent resource for researching the etymology of various words and expressions.

Here are the links to the 356 Japanese originals (spoiler free) and to the the spreadsheet with all the upcoming senryu as well as the translations to date.

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  1. 陽当たりのよいマイホーム昼は留守

ひあたりのよいまいほーむひるはるす

A sunny place is a good noon-time home while I’m away.

That does at least break into a 4-6-4 that doesn’t feel too terrible. The の doesn’t seem to be doing its normal possessive thing here, so I’m not sure what’s up with that. And “noon” appears to be the subject of being away from home, judging by the は - but at least in English, that doesn’t make sense. Is the whole front of the thing working as one huge subject?

2 Likes

The difficulty especially for poetry is to know where sentence fragments end and where a completely new thought starts.

日当たりの良いマイホーム is one fragment that sets the scene.
(For your grammar question: の can replace が in relative clauses. You can interpret it as 日当たりが良いマイホーム)
The sentence (fragment) basically ends here. It’s basically just one noun on its own: „My home, well lit by sunlight“ or „My sunlit home

The second part of the senryuu is the punchline. 昼は留守. The は doesn‘t necessarily indicate the actor, but instead it marks the topic of the sentence: „During noon, (I‘m) not at home.

Translation Attempt
187. 陽当たりのよいマイホーム昼は留守
ひあたりの・よいマイホーム・ひるはるす

Bought sunlit house
But I’m never home
When the sun shines

As you can see here, the first part explains: the author owns a home that is in a sunny place. The punchline is that he‘s never home during noon (probably always working/out and about) so he doesn’t get to enjoy the positives of the location at all.

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If you don’t mind my asking, how are you interpreting よい? I thought it was going to mean “good”, but I see you’ve introduced the word “bought” into your interpretation. Is that more of an artistic license or did I miss something?

For sure, poetry is hard. But I do like that it is one self-contained thought - with longer pieces I can end up forgetting what they were talking about at the beginning of the paragraph before I even get to the end, and at least that isn’t a problem here!

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日当たりのよい is somewhat of a set phrase, meaning sunny, sunlit. So it’s not related to „bought“ in any way :slight_smile: hiatarinoyoi - Jisho.org
I chose „bought“ because the word マイホーム evokes a „this is a recent purchase in my life“ feel for me. (Maybe because it’s a word that I expect younger people to use, rather than people who already bought their house 50 years ago). But I don’t know how accurate this intuition is :smiley: artistic license is a good way to describe it.

7 Likes

陽当たりのよいマイホーム昼は留守

ひあたりの・よいマイホーム・ひるはるす

Our home is nice: bright
and sunlit. But we all stay
out during the day.

5-7-5
The second part in my translation sounds too wordy compared to the terse 昼は留守, a much better punchline.
Actually, my first interpretation was that the house was so sunlit, it got too hot for the day, but that didn’t make sense. That the author is ruing their inability to be at home during the day dawned slowly on my head, like 暁の日当たり(あかつきのひあたり) :laughing:

2 Likes

Saturday, August 6, 2022


Previous senryu

  1. 陽当たりのよいマイホーム昼は留守
    ひあたりの・よいマイホーム・ひるはるす
    Bought sunlit house / But I’m never home / When the sun shines

Notes:

  • This conclusively proves that whenever I doubt my first impression, it’s proven correct, and whenever I’m confident in my first impression, it’s proven wrong!

  • Today I realized @Myria is German (the quotation marks!).

  • Stealing @Myria’s grammar points almost verbatim: 日当たりの良いマイホーム is one fragment that sets the scene (の can replace が in relative clauses. You can interpret it as 日当たりが良いマイホーム). The sentence (fragment) basically ends here. It’s basically just one noun on its own: "My home, well lit by sunlight“ or "My sunlit home“. The second part of the senryuu is the punchline: 昼は留守. The は doesn‘t necessarily indicate the actor, but instead it marks the topic of the sentence: "During daytime, (I‘m) not at home.“

  • Note that (ひる) also has the connotation of daytime, not just noon or afternoon ((あさ)(ひる)(ばん)).

  • マイホーム sounds a bit like real-estate advertising copy to me, too. I’m not completely sure why the author chose this English katagana-go phrase, but “artistic license” is almost certainly correct (I suspect both for (おん) count and a wry vibe).

Current senryu challenge

Volume: Various Settings

  1. いい事も時には言ってる酔っ払い

Once again, easy for me to read without a dictionary, but I’ve little idea what it means. I need to ponder this for a bit.

I’m looking forward to reading what other’s think!


Remember to please use the spoiler tag with your translation attempts! Also, please include the reading in kana with your submission.

Everyone is encouraged to participate, no matter your level! Questions and comments are as valued as translation submissions.

Please try not to be disappointed if your translation isn’t selected or if you disagree with the daily choice: the judge isn’t terribly consistent with his grading (and has awful taste!).
Online tools like dictionaries, sentence databases, and even AI translation engines are fair game and can be extremely helpful. Yomichan is particularly handy if you use the Chrome or Firefox browser. The 語源(ごげん)由来(ゆらい)辞典(じてん) is also an excellent resource for researching the etymology of various words and expressions.

Here are the links to the 356 Japanese originals (spoiler free) and to the the spreadsheet with all the upcoming senryu as well as the translations to date.

いい事も時には言ってる酔っ払い

いいことも・ときにはいってる・よっぱらい

The drunkard
utters nice things from
time to time

3-5-3
Not sure why it warrants a 川柳 though. Many drunkards say nice things and try to act friendly even with strangers on the street. Perhaps いい事を言う can also mean “speaks clearly/lucidly” in a round about fashion?

3 Likes
  1. いい事も時には言ってる酔っ払い

いいとこもときにはいってるよっぱらい

Sometimes a drunkard has said good things, too.

So this one had me learning about ~ている (and that the い gets dropped a lot in conversation) and ~てある. My instinct is that this was てある because of the も particle, but I also couldn’t find “proof” that the あ would get dropped like the い does.

1 Like

I’m not sure about this one. If it started 「酔っ払いが。。。」then I’d be certain it was talking about a third party as the drunk, but I’m wondering if it’s the author that’s drunk here. Maybe they are talking about themselves in the third person?

There is a commonly expressed belief that one reveals truths (本音(ほんね)) when drunk. I’m wondering if this senryu is saying that sometimes these confessions/admissions are a good thing. Kind of a “There, I said it — what a relief.”

Perhaps an expression of love, or finally saying something aloud they’ve been afraid to tell their superior.

Following that idea, here’s my attempt:

  1. いい事も時には言ってる酔っ払い
    いいことも・ときにはいってる・よっぱらい
    confessions of
    a drunk aren’t always
    a bad thing

    confessions by
    a drunk are sometimes
    good things, too

This captures my interpretation of the meaning, but fails miserably by my judging standards. It inverts the logic: いい事も becomes “aren’t always bad” rather than “good things, too”. It’s also a 4-5-3.

I’m going to let this one run for another day to encourage more discussion. Please let me know if you think I’m off base. By all means, please submit an improvement if you think I’m getting warm.

Monday, August 8, 2022


Previous senryu

  1. いい事も時には言ってる酔っ払い
    いいことも・ときにはいってる・よっぱらい
    confessions by / a drunk are sometimes / good things, too

Notes:

  • This version fails miserably at being a direct translation: “confessions” for 酔っ払いが言ってること is a slight stretch, and it’s passive voice, but I think it gets captures the intended meaning. I struggled to decide between the three submissions, but ultimately decided that going with “confessions” was the best way to capture the (hopefully) intended meaning.

  • At least I’m going to assume agreement since there was no further discussion: I think this senryu explores the common belief that drunks tend to utter 本音(ほんね) (true thoughts, real feelings). Often enough, such confessions are just demeaning or at least embarrassing. Sometimes, though, it can be a good thing when they are said aloud. Examples might be confessions of love, or things they’ve been afraid to tell superiors or their family.

Current senryu challenge

Volume: Salaryman

  1. このオレに あたたかいのは 便座だけ

Lol! I don’t think any hints are required: a dictionary lookup of the only word in Kanji will give it away if you don’t know the word (I didn’t, but knew the components and readings — thanks WK!).


Remember to please use the spoiler tag with your translation attempts! Also, please include the reading in kana with your submission.

Everyone is encouraged to participate, no matter your level! Questions and comments are as valued as translation submissions.

Please try not to be disappointed if your translation isn’t selected or if you disagree with the daily choice: the judge isn’t terribly consistent with his grading (and has awful taste!).
Online tools like dictionaries, sentence databases, and even AI translation engines are fair game and can be extremely helpful. Yomichan is particularly handy if you use the Chrome or Firefox browser. The 語源(ごげん)由来(ゆらい)辞典(じてん) is also an excellent resource for researching the etymology of various words and expressions.

Here are the links to the 356 Japanese originals (spoiler free) and to the the spreadsheet with all the upcoming senryu as well as the translations to date.

  1. このオレに あたたかいのは 便座だけ

このおれにあたたかいのはべんざだけ

At this spa, warmth is only for toilet seats.
I also am considering - At this spa, the toilet seats are always warm.
That one is probably better “artistically”. But it ignores that あたたかい has a の on the end, and leaves it an adjective.

The だけ threw me for a bit of a loop - I’m guessing that it does not literally mean “only” for this example, and is closer to the definition “to the extent of” that I also saw. Though I think I found a bit of a pun: 抱け as a form of 抱く, which is “to sit on eggs / to brood” and I don’t know about the rest of you, but sometimes sitting on the toilet can really be like that…

2 Likes

Actually, I’m pretty sure that it does mean “only” here surprisingly enough.

I think what you might be missing is that このオレ (この(おれ)) pretty much means “this guy” (like with double thumbs pointing at yourself).

I think the meaning for this one is basically: "As for this guy, the only warm thing in my life is my toilet seat".

It didn’t occur to me, but it’s also possible that some here might not have yet experienced the joys of a Toto Washlet!

2 Likes

OK, I think the katakana messed me up a bit. I assumed that meant they were using a different definition - I forgot that katakana can be used “just because”.

I’ve been pretty off in most of these so far, but I can definitely feel my brain starting to wrap itself around more grammar every day. So I count this as an overall win.

Oddly enough for a US resident, my parents actually have a bidet in the house I grew up in, so the toto washlet is not an entirely foreign concept to me! Though admittedly, their bidet seems like it’s from the stone ages compared to some of the features I’ve seen on toilets used in Japan. I’m sure if I got used to it, it would be quite nice, but the thing always scared me a little. :sweat_smile:

1 Like

I remember laughing for a solid ten minutes when I first discovered my friend’s new toilet came with a remote control…

(Intended to be mounted on the wall next to the toilet of course, and just to eliminate the need for wiring, but it still cracked me up.)