Concerns over the Japanese language

That’s the calculation you’re asking for :man_shrugging:

But you can still express politeness in English and it’s not awkward at all. It’s just different to what you’re used to…
I’m starting to feel like what you’re really asking is “can I use Japanese in the same way that I use German” to which the answer is quite clearly no.

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I instead focus on my gripes with culture and forced circumstances, personal stuff.

The same thing that applies to you in french, applies to me in english, down straight really. But you’ll never know all the words, sayings, idioms.
(I for one struggle with body parts, fruit names, tree names, and very specific stuff like Epiphany. And since I like writing, it would be so great if words like Epiphany could come to me naturally, which they do in german, but I think never will in english.
Also, around people I’m comfortable with, my confidence in english far improves.

Not everybody speaks slang, I did not want to generalize.
If you want to miss my point, then that’s that.

Maybe it is.
Not a unfounded thought, considering I relegated english to a practical language, and not my language of choice today:

No no, I meant that because only a specific group of people held that opinion then that means it is subjective. Not objective as you were arguing (for lack of a better word).

I tried not to point out the irony but I couldn’t resist as you, in fact, missed my point, sassy pants

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Purposefully skirting around the current discussion
They say an example is worth a thousand yen (or something like that?) so as a counterpoint to Japanese being vague and best suited for poetry here is a Wikipedia article on Elliptic-curve cryptography.

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Maybe I worded it wrong.
Polite in this case is anybody who has been raised with any semblance of manners.
In german there is the, as I now find, beautiful express of „Unding“, which basically means Fauxpas.

If you went straight to Du, that would be very much that.

All the more reason to learn the language, no? :slight_smile:

Hitsujibungaku has some really great music. Most of my favorite Japanese songs are anime music so I guess you may just immediately dismiss them but

Kimino shiranai monogatari by supercell is one of my favorite songs; it has some really great lyrics and a piano solo.
It’s a bit hard to find on youtube 'cause of copyright but it gets a lot of covers and I think it might be on spotify (?). Here’s a brief sample from it… (and I doubt my translation really does it justice)
真っ暗な世界から見上げた
夜空は星が降るようで
From a pitch-black earth I looked up
At the night sky, filled with stars that seem to be falling (like rain)

It also has some really interesting expressions like おしすぶされる “to be flattened (by a pressing force)”, which is used metaphorically in the song. It also has a really beautiful part where it uses the fact that the difference between “I didn’t say” and “I wasn’t able to say” is a single syllable in Japanese to create a really beautiful parallelism between two consecutive verses.

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I certainly don’t dismiss anime music.
What I forgot to mention, because my memory is god awful, is that the other japanese music that I have is either anime music (Sailor Moon and Hanayamata), from the video game Yakuza 0, or Vocaloid.

I’ll check it out, thanks!

Certainly. However, native speakers don’t know everything either. :wink: It’s quite possible to know more expressions than (at least certain) native speakers in some domains, or to know grammatical rules better. It’s doable, and again, all it takes is exposure and effort. I really wish I could use someone other than myself as an example, but there’s a reason I managed to find three obscure words that my French literature-and-philosophy teacher was looking for in a row, even after the rest of the class had tried their luck and failed. They certainly know other expressions that I don’t, but believe me, there are foreign learners who get acknowledged by their native peers as being ‘better’ at the language. I can’t be the only one.

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Cool! I think music is one of the big reasons I wanted to learn the language. Well, the primary reason was after hearing it anime I was just kinda stunned at how beautiful the language seemed to me. Obviously it’s a very subjective reason but it’s kept me motivated. :slight_smile:

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I don’t see why more features is necessarily better? When a language is created (or evolved) you weigh grammatical complexity against lexical complexity. It would be ridiculous for a language to have all the features of all languages

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I wasn’t trying to imply that you are physically unable to criticize Japanese. You are of course entitled to your opinions, and that’s perfectly fine.
What I meant was that it’s really not best to make a topic in the forums of a Japanese learning website about what you think is bad about Japanese. While yes, every language does have pros and cons, there’s no reason to highlight them because chances are unlikely that they will change. Languages are used as a medium of communication, almost essential to human functioning lives these days. Of course, they can be improved, but unless you will work toward improving them, it’s rather rude to make such criticizations. Not only is it disrespectful to those who originally created the Japanese language, but it’s also disrespectful to those who study it (the vast majority of us here), who use it in daily life (and especially so to those who know no other languages), and many more. It is imperfect, but saying that it’s a waste of time to study this language simply because you believe there are better, more nuanced, and easier-to-learn ones in existence is insulting.

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My sadness is nigh unbearable at this point, because I can not find my source.
This is so sad

You’re not… quite… Reading what I’m saying…

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I do not care if it is rude, unapologetically.

It is within my right to try and find out, and re-assess, if this is really how I want to spend my time.

I did not say any of the things that you seem to imply that I am.

I think a community should be open enough to also allow this, no?

I can’t express my hatred for what you just wrote adequately.

@Mods I think this has gone far enough

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I think the idea is that objectively, all languages have certain abilities while lacking others. That’s really about it. That may make them seem better in some respects. Whether or not you can call that assessment of ‘goodness’ or desirability ‘objective’, however, is another matter. I definitely agree that it’s impossible for a single language to have all the features, and that it’s really hard to say that just having ‘more’ features makes a language better.

Maybe I’m the exception here, but I don’t feel particularly insulted, unfortunate as the situation is… I mean, perhaps it’s subjectively a waste of time, just like how some of us might hate having to sit in French class or English class? Everyone has a different opinion. It doesn’t mean that it’s universally a waste of time, or that your (more accurately, our) efforts in learning Japanese have been a ridiculous farce. If OP is here to evaluate whether or not it’s a waste of time by his standards, so be it, no?
(EDIT: But yeah, ok, that last message was kinda overboard…)

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Thank you, @Kumirei

@JenK (idk if direct tagging works any faster but) please see above

And OP, may I suggest reading the forum FAQ and guidelines? Checking your profile, it seems you have not yet done so, so I encourage​ you to do so.

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I learn just the same, can I not be curious and ask questions, even if some might find them rude, which was not my intention.

I, too, would argue that your message was just as rude as mine, and I, instead left it at that and did not go any further.

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