Bunpro as a supplement to WaniKani

When to use more resources/supplements is partly a very individual decision. I think I started with BP around level 5-7 on WK (I can’t remember exactly when) because I had time to add in more studying and I wanted to be able to start reading soonish and for that I needed grammar. BP have worked excellently for me. I read most external readings, I read each example sentence and try to translate it myself first and then check the official translation (the English can be hidden so you have to click to reveal it).

But as with any other resource, it doesn’t work in isolation. Just like WK doesn’t. Truly learning anything outside an SRS system is to actually read/write/hear/speak it outside of the system.

BP works well for me, but it did slow down my WK leveling because doing BP lessons/points takes time (unfortunately it isn’t instant! :stuck_out_tongue: ), the reviews aren’t so bad for me though because I never did more than 3 points per day and usually less. But it is still more reviews.

Personally I found Duolingo confusing because it doesn’t actually teach anything. It just shows a word or phrase or such and say this is what it means. It doesn’t explain why or how. (Unless they changed that in the last 6 months.) Human Japanese was too simplistic for me, maybe I should have tried the trial for the intermediate, but I didn’t know everything from the beginner one, and I wasn’t willing to slug my way through to the new stuff.

You can try BP for a whole month no restriction on how much you do in that time. So you could always try it when you have a bit of time in your schedule to commit to it for a couple of weeks.

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I don’t know how much you can improve your grammar with BunPro, but as a complete beginner it works well for me. Maybe it won’t teach me the exact situations I should use certain grammar points, but it can certainly teach me that they exist. Baby steps. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Enough… for what? Genki 1 and 2 will cover beginner level Japanese but there’s a vast amount more out there.

I think it’s critical to have some way of actively using grammar and vocabulary to promote them from “passive” to “active.” So not just reading Genki but actively doing exercises, and/or BunPro, and/or using something like HelloTalk and really using the lgnauge.

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The app doesn’t have any explanations which sucks, and I don’t understand that.
When you go on the web, however, there are explanations for the grammar being introduced. And there’s a forum for each sentence where usually someone explains it in more detail.

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I started the Bunpro trial sometime last month and have found it to be reasonably helpful. I don’t think the SRS style is working as well for me as it does for kanji since grammar is more about understanding than simple recognition, but the lessons are really good. It gives conjugation charts when introducing verbs which has helped me understand the tenses much better than I did when using Duolingo, where I would mix them up frequently.

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Torii is for vocab, it’s built to be similar to Wanikani: Torii - SRS learning application for vocabulary

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Yeah lol, I’m asking which of those two tools are better for learning grammar, or at least the level of grammar covered in genki 1 and 2

They were just going from your own mistake. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I tried the free trial at level 14, but I found it a bit too difficult. The examples were not too useful, so when I did the reviews, I often did not know what to answer, and I did not have the feeling of learning.
Instead, I use italki.com where I found a professional Japanese teacher (look up Ayu) where we speak conversational Japanese and also go through the Genki learning book via Skype, that is very useful and motivating for me.

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That’s not necessarily the only difference, or even the mot important. Unless I’m mistaken, 少ない is for countable nouns, and 少し for non-countable.

I see you’ve already had a couple replies, but I’m gonna go ahead and give my two cents on Duolingo: don’t use it. Use Lingodeer, use Bunpro, use anything but duolingo. Their courses and method are fine, but their Japanese course has fairly significant issues in its execution that lead me to tell anyone I know who tells me they use it to stop, and use anything else. I personally feel like it doesn’t use natural enough Japanese, it objectively (albeit indirectly) teaches incorrect kanji readings, and doesn’t reinforce points as strongly as most other sources. Until they fix their issues, my opinion on duolingo Japanese is :poop:

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i started learning japanese with duolingo some time ago and still use it sometimes. i think it’s fine as a casual learning tool and as long as one does not fall victim to the instant gratification trap (i did :disappointed: ). if i could go back in time i would start wanikani and bunpro much earlier.

about bunpro, i think it allows users to arrange the lesson order to match genki, although i’ve never tried it

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Thanks for that. I memorized both as ‘a few’, instead of 少し as ‘a little’.

I tried Lingodeer, and still think duolingo is better, as long as it’s not your only learning tool. Yes, Lingodeers recordings are better than duolingos computer voice, and yes, duolingo uses sometimes the wrong kanji reading when you put together compound words with single kanjis. But since I’m using Wanikani and look at the info for each lesson, I know when it’s wrong.

I like duolingo’s structure better and they have a web version where I can type Japanese with my keyboard. And there’s a new version coming out this year which hopefully fixes most of the issues.

Anyway, I think everyone should use what they like best and it’s great that there are so many ways to learn Japanese now. On my first attempt to learn Japanese a few years ago, there were a lot less.

Hey. I am starting 1on1 sessions this sunday and we will do Minna No Nihongo. Should I activate the sub on bunpro and choose the respective path for that series? I never used bunpro or Minna before… I will use bunpro at somepoint but was wondering if now its the time or I will cram too much

I’ve found that the most important part of my studies is reviewing/testing my knowledge. Does Human Japanese do that, and if it does, how does it do it?

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There’s a quiz at the end of each chapter, but no spaced repetition.

If the in-app reviews aren’t enough, someone did go to the trouble of making downloadable Anki decks with all the Human Japanese vocab and example sentences (including their audio). I used them for a while but fell off of it because I just don’t like Anki very much.

As mentioned, there’s a semi mandatory quiz on the chapter’s contents at the end (you can toggle this off and jump around freely, skip chapters, if you prefer), as well as optional ones for vocab/kanji of that chapter. You can also chose to do a randomized quiz on specific chapters or all chapters to a specific point, or one focusing on the things you got wrong more often.

I think in the beginner one, there was an extra quiz for drilling numbers, and in the intermediate one for conjugation drills, since they introduce casual forms in the first chapter of HJI.

I can’t recommend these enough. For me at least they were fun, there’s voiced dialogue and sentence breakdowns for every single sentence!, and quizzes, and you can do these lessons everywhere, since they’re not too long and, well available for mobile.

The only downside is that you can’t sync pc and mobile but have to choose one version.

Just saw this…WHAT??? Duo doesn’t teach grammar at all. If you like that format consider Lingodeer instead. I still use duo (as it’s what motivated me in the beginning to seriously dive in head first all these years later…then I met the :crabigator: …what was I thinking!..) haha

I would agree BP in the beginning I found confusing. The app on my android phone wasn’t bad but even doing WK on the phone with a few characters, and then BP with a whole sentence! Yikes…way too small to read…I use BP almost everyday on the computer.

The interface isn’t necessarily obvious to a beginner why/which you might choose (paths/etc)…and the stats still need some work but they are doing a great job. Also they respond is there is a problem/bug…they are quick (like the folks at WK) so they seem to care just as much … maybe the :crabigator: is behind BP too…I think the :crabigator: is trying to take over the world… hehe

anyway… given where I’ve come from…and where I’m at now…My suggestion is to continue BP…but here’s what I’d recommend! First of all RESET! Start fresh (assuming you are still at the beginning)

  1. Don’t take on lessons at any rate that’s fast! Pay attention…I’ll say it again…SLOW!!! seriously slow…Take on 1-3 lessons at a time.

For some of the simple stuff you think you know, study it anyway. You may not need to read each resource, but at least read the practice sentences. If you don’t understand how it’s used, then go read the resources so you stand a chance of learning. Japanese grammar is definitely not the same as English.

  1. Remember…This is important!!! Don’t just try to answer based on the hint! You’ll just be throwing darts…and be frustrated etc…if you read the sentence and don’t understand it, then how can you begin to understand the grammar point? right?

Grammar is NOT vocab…and must be used/understood/how it functions along with how the various forms integrate with the rest of the sentence/verb conjugations etc…It’s an SRS but it’s NOT a flashcard system and shouldn’t be treated as “gamified” in the same way as WK.

It will take some getting used to, but reach each sentence and do your best to integrate the kanji readings (one of the things I love about BP it gives me reading practice for kanji - wild kanji…can’ they be tamed by anyone other than the :crabigator: )

  1. Don’t do too many lessons…so 1-3 and only do more until you fully understand them. So I’d say do 1-3 lessons and then practice those. For the simple stuff…yeah you can do more, but don’t go too fast…remember point 1.

There are still things I miss occasionally, but BP has also helped me realize that there is stuff I’ve been confused about and I can practice when I’m speaking with my 先生 on skype. And…it’s also helped kill some leeches!

  1. Another area that I personally find frustrating (not a BP problem), is my lack of grammar knowledge in general. All that stuff you learn in grade school has long left my head and heck if I know what’s grammatically correct vs what sounds right.

If you aren’t strong in English grammar, then Japanese grammar will be that much more challenging…but it’s alright because…BP has identified areas where I wasn’t sure how to actually use the grammar (yes there are resources)…but I don’t always quite understand how some it translates back to English…

Make sure you have a good feel for them and how they work before adding new lessons. There are still things I goof occasionally, but it improves with each review. Also since the sentences vary (and I read them)…I’m actually learning the concepts better and getting better at integrating them. (That’s still slow going, but it does get easier).

  1. BP may not be for you, that’s fine…but duo doesn’t teach any grammar… so be careful…it’s very simple phrases/sentences, etc…they only recently started throwing kanji into the mix again…

depending on what you want to do with the language, duo might be fine…however, I’d hazard a guess that you have come this far and want to be fluent…duo won’t get you much past some very basic stuff. Lingodeer will get you farther, but BP can get you to N2!

One last thing…turn off English and furigana for WK kanji! Will truly your knowledge much better. You can always click the button if there’s something you don’t know.

Whatever you choose…BEST OF LUCK! study hard…Japanese is easy :smile: (if only)

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Duolingo does explain grammar. It might be new, but it’s there. I remember using it a few years ago, and I wasn’t happy with it at all, but now I like it.

I’m actually pretty good with grammar in general and with English and German grammar specifically, maybe that’s why duo works for me since I don’t need lengthy explanations and can figure out the patterns from the examples. And I like that I can put in the whole sentence in duo instead of specific parts like bunpro. If they added that option, I might want to use it again. (but probably not)

For advanced learners, duolingo obviously doesn’t add any value, but once I reach a certain point in a language, I usually learn from reading that language anyway and don’t need those kind of tools anymore. My goal is to get good enough at reading so I can learn naturally, and I think duo will get me there faster than bunpro.

Everything is as mentioned, sorry for the delay on my end. I can send you some picture/video examples if you’d like. Let me know!