# Are there any English words that Wanikani forced you to learn how to spell?
**URL:** https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995
**Category:** WaniKani
**Created:** [May 16, 2022, 1:06am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995 "2022-05-16T01:06:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Chocobits](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Chocobits)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 7:34am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/82 "2022-11-22T07:34:38Z")
Not sure what you mean by the “they’re their own thing” exception. As for their and heir, it’s debatable that they’re the same sound as the English long A vowel. They are closer to the Japanese え than えい, えい being a close equivalent to the English long A vowel.
---
### Author:  [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 7:39am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/83 "2022-11-22T07:39:45Z")
Setting aside whether there actually is some deep linguistic rule that applies or not… It would be really unhelpful if people were expected to know how to apply that knowledge before they could use the typical jingle.
---
### Author:  [@Chocobits](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Chocobits)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 7:45am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/84 "2022-11-22T07:45:58Z")
This is why English is such a fun language for its native speakers. We live in a world where “world” is technically a 1-syllable word.
---
### Author:  [@SemihUcar](https://community.wanikani.com/u/SemihUcar)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 7:50am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/85 "2022-11-22T07:50:56Z")
Circumference 🙂
---
### Author:  [@sudgy](https://community.wanikani.com/u/sudgy)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 9:14am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/86 "2022-11-22T09:14:01Z")
The jingle is meant for situations where ie or ei are used for a vowel and you aren’t sure which one it is. It’s for cases where the ie or ei are considered to be a single vowel (I’m talking how native English speakers perceive vowels, not how the vowel sounds actually work phonetically). In a word like sufficient, the i is part of the group “ci” which makes the “sh” sound, so it is not grouped with the e. In science, the i is audibly its own syllable. Furthermore, in therein, it is very clearly the combination of there and in, and the e and the i are not making their own sound together.
I will admit that their and heir is debatable.
---
### Author:  [@sudgy](https://community.wanikani.com/u/sudgy)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 9:17am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/87 "2022-11-22T09:17:56Z")
The jingle worked great for me as a kid. I knew there were a few exceptions (and I memorized a few of the basic ones like weird), but all of the situations where it applied felt natural to me and I didn’t feel like I needed some deep linguistic knowledge to use it. (I would argue I didn’t have any linguistic knowledge outside of what I knew from English, which I have since learned barely applies to other languages.)
Edit: Woops meant to reply to @Leebo on this one
---
### Author:  [@Chocobits](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Chocobits)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 9:45am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/88 "2022-11-22T09:45:02Z")
My point, and I think Leebo’s point, was that the verbiage required to make the jingle work would be so overly verbose and convoluted that there may as well not be a jingle at all.
Here’s a sanity check to see if the jingle works: A person encounters a word that has ei or ie, with or without a C in front. Does the jingle help them predict how the word will be pronounced? If not, how much verbiage would be required for the jingle to do so?
The truth is that the combinations of ie or ei as a single syllable can be used to create the sounds of the long vowels A, I and E. They can also create the sounds of the short vowel E. They can also be two syllables.
The English language doesn’t afford itself a neat set of rules for spelling or pronunciation, and any rules created are a retrospective attempt to find method in the madness.
---
### Author:  [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 10:33am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/89 "2022-11-22T10:33:07Z")
> [@sudgy](#):
>
> The jingle is meant for situations where ie or ei are used for a vowel and you aren’t sure which one it is
If that’s true, it’s basically never mentioned by people teaching it to children.
And while you mentioned you don’t feel that it’s “deep” linguistic knowledge, loads of people would just stare blankly at you if you told them that.
They wouldn’t see any distinction with words you said don’t apply.
---
### Author:  [@coicoy](https://community.wanikani.com/u/coicoy)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 12:55pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/90 "2022-11-22T12:55:48Z")
> [@cineebon](#):
>
> chrysanthemum
I refuse to spell out chrysiantnjsheme
If there’s anything close on Tsurukame, I add it as a synonym.
---
### Author:  [@sudgy](https://community.wanikani.com/u/sudgy)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/91 "2022-11-22T19:24:17Z")
My main point I want to make is that the ie vs ei jingle is not useless. At the very least, it worked exactly as intended for me as a kid and it helped me learn how to spell a lot of words.
---
### Author:  [@Chocobits](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Chocobits)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/92 "2022-11-22T19:54:56Z")
The most notable exceptions I have seen are ‘forfeit’ and ‘sleight’. Are you saying the jingle accounts for those (it doesn’t appear to), and if not, how would you include them in the jingle?
Forfeit is pronounced with the short i, and sleight is pronounced the same as slight, with the long I sound, despite being spelled similarly to weight.
---
### Author:  [@Oshietekun](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Oshietekun)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/93 "2022-11-22T20:15:07Z")
I before E, except after C,
And when sounding like A, as in “neighbor” and “weigh”,
And on weekends and holidays and all throughout May,
And you’ll always be wrong no matter what you say.
– Brian Regan
---
### Author:  [@sudgy](https://community.wanikani.com/u/sudgy)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/94 "2022-11-22T20:16:52Z")
I never said the jingle accounts for everything. I even mentioned weird as an even more notable exception earlier. I’m just trying to say it’s a good rule of thumb that works in a decent number of cases and can be useful when learning how to spell.
---
### Author:  [@anon12500920](https://community.wanikani.com/u/anon12500920)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 10:04pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/95 "2022-11-22T22:04:58Z")
@Logograph i feel targettes by this thread
---
### Author:  [@Logograph](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Logograph)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/96 "2022-11-22T22:06:03Z")
For once I’m not the one doing the targeting
---
### Author:  [@ninjabassonline](https://community.wanikani.com/u/ninjabassonline)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/97 "2022-11-28T20:44:25Z")
As an adult born in New Zealand who has lived in Australia for half my life I tend to get the vowels mixed up in words because pacific people pronounce vowels differently (weird accent) … I never get separate right because when an Aussie actually pronounces it …it sounds like seperate (or even seprit) …lot’s of other words where the a and e and sometimes i sounds get swapped in actual spoken language. I noticed that Wanikani accepts British and American English which is nice (colour vs color for example)
… oh and municipal, we don’t really use this word down under so that was fun 😉
---
### Author:  [@nazan](https://community.wanikani.com/u/nazan)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2023, 9:35am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/98 "2023-01-18T09:35:44Z")
I’ll just preemptively post this here… This is gonna give me some trouble 😅
---
### Author:  [@Meghana](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Meghana)
#### Post date: [January 20, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/99 "2023-01-20T00:13:16Z")
I just add my misspellings as synonyms lol
---
### Author:  [@Light958](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Light958)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2023, 6:14am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/100 "2023-03-02T06:14:43Z")
`seperate`, I always spell it like that when it’s supposed to be `separate` I’m still in the process of forcing myself to have that as my muscle memory spelling.
---
### Author:  [@ParadigmShifter](https://community.wanikani.com/u/ParadigmShifter)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2023, 8:28am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995/101 "2023-03-28T08:28:54Z")
I got that wrong for 30 years until it came up in a code review (comment).
It has A RAT in in it, helped me.
EDIT: desperate does not help though
[Previous page](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995.md?page=4)
[Next page](https://community.wanikani.com/t/are-there-any-english-words-that-wanikani-forced-you-to-learn-how-to-spell/56995.md?page=6)