I’m going back to cutey wooty doggy pics…
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The number of vocabulary words not on Wanikani far far outnumbers the number of vocabulary words that are.
Not including words in Wanikani isn’t censoring the language, and not including them on Wanikani isn’t preventing one from learning them.
The question is just if the (mild) benefit of including it outweighs the (also generally mild, but potentially more major) negative impact of randomly being reminded of a suicide method during what’s supposed to be study time.
Since you specifically can’t prepare for what the next card in an SRS review session is going to be, I think it makes sense to avoid including words that might cause someone to have a worse day just by seeing them unprepared.
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Personally, I don’t see any harm in adding the ability for users to remove words since y’know…there are other uses for it and it’s up to the user. Only positives all around imo.
One thing I will say though is that it seems quite silly to me to request a word be removed because you think other people might be offended by it. Like you’re not even triggered by it, but you just assume other people might be. Like WK has been around for awhile, so either there have been people who had a big enough problem with it to speak out and the wk team declined the change, or no one has been bothered enough about it to speak out. So like either way…speaking up on behalf of other people who may not even exist on here after all this time…? Really doe?
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cw: honest talk about suicide
飛び込み自殺. that was my preferred and planned way of going for a long time. if you’re at a spot in your life where learning a new vocab will push you over the edge, i’m sorry but then really just about anything will and you should start looking for a therapist or suicide hotline even before finishing reading this post (like now. i’m serious. waiting for a sign? this is it. have a stick.).
i find WK’s explanation to include this item perfectly reasonable and actually see no harm in keeping it at all. plenty things made me uncomfortable, sad or angry when learning about japanese, japan and its culture. that’s just part of it.
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Is this a word you might come across in a newspaper?
i mean- i wouldn’t bash people for being offended. I think the word should still be on wanikani but triggers themselves are a very serious thing.
Like the expectations a person has for the news (which can cover things from puppies to something aweful). You can just- turn the news off, right. your expectation is that the next story can be a bad one. where as i’d still call it pretty rude to talk up to a total stranger and to just info-dump every serious thing that’s happened in your life even if its “something that can potentially happen in real life”
Learning material in itself is “Usually” more on the sfw side of things. Most apps and websites either have a search engine (meaning you can ignore any words or topics you don’t want to learn about) or they cover very simple or lighthearted topics (conversations, common nouns, simple grammar) so i wouldn’t say its very odd that people point out that certain words seem a bit harsh, its just up to wanikani in how they want to deal with that kind of topic (in this case they seem to want to keep them around but make it clear in why they do it)
So yeah i mean, i wouldn’t expect R rated thing to just vanish out of thin air, people are just handling them in new ways. Probably one of my favorite ways was a game had some pretty triggering material, but they had a link leading to all the triggers it had, but since it was in a link people that wanted to not get spoiled were able to play the game without looking at the list at all, but obviously if you wanted to know you can click on it. So it’d say if your materials are vanishing due to being upset its moreso an unwillingness to adapt vs the content itself being the issue (is the content too well hidden that it shocks people too much, what’s the average consumers expectation going into the product) . Its also important to keep in mind that its relatively easier to find trigger list for movies/books/comedy then things like learning material since people might just not think about it the same way. but either way i doubt they are removing the words since i think a couple API’s exist that can potentially hide the words.
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Just commenting to add my support for a SFW mode, and to do a little finger-wagging at some folks who, I think, have leaned a little too hard on the “suck it up, buttercup” side of things. It’s nobody’s place to insist that someone who has experienced trauma be subjected to language that can exacerbate that trauma. Telling someone to tough it out and stop being a snowflake is ineffective at best and mean-spirited at worst. The purpose of the forums is to grow together in our shared language learning journey, and part of that is expressing concerns and questions about the language and how it is taught AND responding to those questions in a helpful and compassionate manner. Nobody’s lived experiences are the same, and as a result, nobody’s perception of the world and its myriad injustices are the same either, but they should still be respected.
Lastly, for anyone reading this who’s had a similar question to OP’s and might feel a little strange or silly for asking the question in the first place, I just want you to know that your feelings are valid and supported. Sometimes the path to healing is long, winding, and full of tree roots and big rocks and other nasty stuff to trip over. The important part is, you’re still walking it, and I’m so proud of you for that.
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Triggers must be faced. It’s good to know sensitive words in case someone actually uses them in a conversation. You wouldn’t want to misunderstand what they are saying and respond in an insensitive manner, would you? You can’t learn by avoiding something.
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Again, there are TONS of words on Wanikani that this could theoretically apply to. Where do you draw the line?
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Honestly I don’t really see the point in extrapolating to other words, or quibbling over the poster’s intentions in drawing attention to this one, or arguing about how sensitive or unsensitive hypothetical people should be.
To me it’s just:
I see the logic for how for this word in particular could be sensitive, and how that could potentially outweigh its educational value in being in Wanikani. No more than that.
I find SRS a comforting ritual each morning, and I can see how if I were suffering from suicidal ideation, this word in particular could jeopardize that feeling in a way that other words don’t, and how therefore it’s an identifiable edge case in what words to include or exclude.
Like, I have no personal preference, but the line of thought holds more water to me as an argument for removing a word than “it’s useless.” (because personally I think even slight usefulness is worthwhile, and even slight/rare negative impact on real humans is bad)
I’m not surprised that if threads about “this word is useless” generally devolves into a long thread of people’s perspectives not quite gelling with each other, that this one about an even more emotionally fraught one would do the same, but I don’t think it actually needs to be about anything more than about if this specific word fits or doesn’t fit.
So, my answer is it’s up to the Wanikani team where to draw the line.
They should take the thread as “hey maybe this one item should be outside the line” and nothing more.
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Agree. That’s what I’m saying. I then also expect others to respect my preference to live in a world where I can risk being offended and where other people’s experiences don’t dictate what I can and can’t see or read. If people want to avoid the word I don’t care. I earlier advocated for a system where the word of their particular choice could be hidden from them. Avoid whatever you feel. It is your life and choices. I’m not “insisting someone be exposed to trauma”, I’m insisting that other people’s experiences and fears shouldn’t allow them to dictate what I, myself can choose to be exposed to.
I’m sorry if I have given anyone the impression I am mean spirited. Quite the contrary. I just feel that there is nowhere to draw the line as many people pointed out. What if every single person on here was horribly triggered by a different word. Where would we be. And don’t say that’s impossible because as you just pointed out nobody’s lived experiences are the same so you would have absolutely no idea what I might be horribly offended or triggered by on this site.
I go in peace. I truly do not mean to offend, just a strong believer in free speech and I will never stop being that.
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You’re making an assumption that they’re innocent, but maybe they just killed your dog…?
Hence the SFW mode I mentioned at the beginning of my post. You want to learn sixteen different terms for suicide, neat-o. More power to you. Not everyone does, and some people could be harmed by seeing those words again and again due to SRS, so I think those people should be accommodated. That’s it. Nobody’s rights are being attacked, lol.
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I’m starting to think that a lot of people here either don’t understand (or like to pretend they don’t understand) that THE WAY IN WHICH YOU SAY THINGS MATTERS ALMOST AS MUCH AS WHAT YOU’RE SAYING. Yes, I’m shouting. Sometimes you have to shout.
You people are learning Japanese – a language that has different forms and sometimes completely different words for saying the exact same thing to your boss versus your neighbor’s annoying kid. Japanese is all about different ways to say things to different people in different contexts.
(deep breath)
Lemme put this in bullet points to make it easy:
- This is NOT “We shouldn’t talk about suicide.”
We should. We totally should, especially those of us who live in countries where it is seen as shameful and people are afraid to ask for help. But there are many ways to have that conversation and some are better than others.
- This is NOT “censorship” or “neutering language.”
Are you going to scream censorship because you can’t say ばか、だめれ to your boss?
- This is NOT a slippery slope covered in special snowflakes or “But then we’ll have to accommodate everyone’s triggers.”
That’s about as dumb as saying “This catered business lunch will only have steak tartare because if I add a vegetarian salad then next thing you know I’ll have to make a special personalized meal for every single person in the company.”
- This is NOT “Why should your desire to avoid certain things be more important than my desire to learn about them?”
Your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins.
But there are ways to present this content that will let you move your arms around and also keep my nose intact. How about we figure out what those are, hmm?
This SHOULD BE about:
- Figuring out how to handle a sensitive issue when you don’t know who your audience is.
- Trying to show respect and consideration for that audience as human beings.
- Accepting that even well intentioned people get things wrong and that’s okay as long as you’re respectful (see #2) about giving AND receiving that criticism, and you work together to figure out solutions (see #1) as things come up.
Thank you for coming to my talk.
(steps away from the podium)
PS: Wanting a temporary SFW toggle so you don’t have 金玉 in huge letters on your work computer is a different conversation. 
(EDIT: although it does give the user control over when they want to deal with those reviews… 
)
PPS: Wanting the ability to eliminate all the vocab that you personally find boring is yet a third conversation and oh hey there’s an app for that.
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fair enough
this is a great post … well written … hat’s off! 
to those that feel triggered… (no disrespect meant - being realistic) it’s impossible to please everyone but an option that’s default WK (no scripts)
items that might be triggers (or anything someone doesn’t like) a synonym can be added “trigger” (or something else) to any radical, kanji, vocab and since it should be easy to remember it’s a trigger words…type in trigger and it will move to burn at the maximum rate you can go…
…(not perfect but will minimize your exposure)…it’s a possible way to deal with anything that someone don’t like in WK reviews…could even do that with 河豚 (too soon?)
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I don’t think anyone’s been that rude or used that kind of language in their rebuttal of the original post? I think most people have been very measured in their replies and set out logical arguments.
And I think it’s worth remembering that the original poster never claimed to be “triggered”. They were hypothetically worrying that other people might be “triggered”. I suppose the internet is full of this though. But until we hear from people who are genuinely upset by reading a word on this site, then this is a bit of a hollow discussion.
This isn’t a website for children btw.
And if anyone is having suicidal thoughts - please, speak to someone. Lots of people who go through with it haven’t spoken to anyone. And speaking to someone can help. It’s not talking about the subject that tips people over the edge in many cases.
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We’ll take a look at this one and see if we’d like to keep it or not. Thank you!
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I’m from the same opinion that although uncomfortable, we should NOT censor education. Problems are fought by raising awareness and talking openly about them, not by censoring them and ignoring in hopes they go away. I’m all for a SFW Wanikani filter or something like that though.
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