Absolute Beginners Book Club // Now Reading: Granny Girl Hinata chan!

[MrGeneric]

@NicoleIsEnough

Or maybe it doesn’t matter too much anyway as at that stage basically everything will be overwhelming?

This is probably a fair statement. The idea of having some kind of grammar sheet to consult is probably a good one to make things more approachable, and might be worth adding regardless if we start trending towards slightly harder picks or not. We would still need to keep a watchful eye on difficulty creep, of course, though. The club still needs to remain fully accessible to Absolute Beginners. That is first and foremost, imo.

@NicoleIsEnough

That, on the other hand, would punish those who stick with the first club, don’t you think? Because all of a sudden their workload doubles if they want to read the next pick as well…

Took the words out of my mouth. I think that sticking with a 15-16 week maximum length is for the best, and anything that takes longer should be considered for the BBC (where the pace would be faster), or run as a club separate from the ABBC. I don’t think overlapping clubs or having much longer-running picks is the best of ideas for Absolute Beginners. So, I think:

@ChristopherFritz

unless we simply disavow anyone who brings in a long pick!

Is the right answer (though, disavowing that particular pick as opposed to the person, obviously. )

@NicoleIsEnough

I guess we can only solve that on a case-by-case basis through polling right then and there; who knows, maybe the remaining readers would not even mind adding a second book to their list of reading chores?

More polls is definitely an option, too, though, if we really are inclined to start introducing longer picks. I just worry participation will drop the longer you make something run.

@Gorbit99

I don’t think this is feasible for an entire book, but it’s rare that you see someone ask for a breakdown, and I think that’s because it doesn’t have a culture already.

Is it that rare? I remember it being quite common early on in Takagi-san and Ayumu (with the number reducing as time went on because less questions cropped up as people got used to reading), but maybe it’s different in other clubs.

[Gorbit99]

@MrGeneric

More polls is definitely an option, too, though

When is it not?

[NicoleIsEnough]

@Gorbit99

it’s rare that you see someone ask for a breakdown, and I think that’s because it doesn’t have a culture already.

@Gorbit99

What I started doing is for abbc book club, because I have the capacity, I translate each week’s reading into a message.

While I don’t doubt that your labor of love is very helpful for many participants, I still wonder whether it might be even more helpful to help establish that culture of (trying breakdowns for oneself and) asking for help with breakdowns? A bit like giving somebody a fish vs. a rod, or lowering the bar vs. helping them jump, as you mentioned.

Very difficult indeed

[Gorbit99]

@NicoleIsEnough

While I don’t doubt that your labor of love is very helpful for many participants, I still wonder whether it might be even more helpful to help establish that culture of (trying breakdowns for oneself and) asking for help with breakdowns? A bit like giving somebody a fish vs. a rod, or lowering the bar vs. helping them jump, as you mentioned.

My idea isn’t ever that someone will skip work and just read the translation for every sentence. It’s just a stepping stone. I strongly believe, that looking at a translation and working backwards is a way of learning how grammar works. Especially as I keep my translations readable rather than make them reflect the actual sentence structure (lit.: I hate sentences that read like “as for me, I went and came back shopping”)

Ofc, I’d rather have both of these techniques side by side. One of them probably requires more labor, tho I haven’t yet made up my mind on which

[MrGeneric]

@Gorbit99

When is it not?

@Gorbit99

(lit.: I hate sentences that read like “as for me, I went and came back shopping”)

I think there is something to be said for both techniques, and I agree that narrowing it to one or the other is unnecessary, but this line just made me smile a bit because I have had to go back and forth depending on who I’m explaining things to.

I generally prefer to try and naturalize sentences, but I know that some folks work better with the literal breakdowns, so I often find myself giving the most unnatural English sentences to explain some grammar. It’s always fascinating to see the different ways people’s brains work! (@mariodesu, yes I’m talking about you. )

Edit: Also, side-note, since we have inadvertently buried the selection poll in the comments, for those who don’t care about all our discussion here and are just wondering where the heck the selection poll is, click here!

It’s linked to in the OP as always, but just in case anybody has missed that!

[ChristopherFritz]

@NicoleIsEnough

on the other hand, would punish those who stick with the first club, don’t you think?

I got to thinking later of all the first-time readers who make it through their first native material, only to be faced with the choice between the next ABBC and an offshoot club.

(Not arguing for or against here.)

@MrGeneric

though, disavowing that particular pick as opposed to the person, obviously.

Don’t make me budge on this one!

@MrGeneric

It’s linked to in the OP as always, but just in case anybody has missed that!

I found myself checking the OP earlier just to be sure it’s linked to there

[mariodesu]

@Gorbit99

I don’t think this is feasible for an entire book

Hold my Takagi-san volume 1

@MrGeneric

I generally prefer to try and naturalize sentences, but I know that some folks work better with the literal breakdowns, so I often find myself giving the most unnatural English sentences to explain some grammar. It’s always fascinating to see the different ways people’s brains work! (@mariodesu, yes I’m talking about you. )

For me literal translations are incomparable, they really help me really understand things!
Maybe it has to do with the fact that I’m not a native english speaker

[Gorbit99]

Am I right in thinking that the poll ends at about 2022-07-15T19:00:00Z? (don’t know how to make one of those fancy timezone times the mods like to use figured it out )

[MrGeneric]

Yep, around then is the idea. Maybe a little later in the day if I get distracted doing something else.

[MrGeneric]

Hey, so, uh, remember that whole, “unless I get distracted doing something else” thing? Yeah, that definitely happened!

However, I’m now pleased to announce that the polls for this run have officially been closed! (Hope everyone enjoyed the extra couple hours to vote in the poll. )

The winners of the poll, since our top two are manga (in fact, our top 3 are all manga this go-round!) are:

Hunter x Hunter &
Cells At Work!!

@Gorbit99, given that these are your nominations, do you mind taking the lead on running the club threads (starting with Hunter x Hunter on August 27th), or do I need to find a volunteer?

[Gorbit99]

I certainly didn’t expect both to be on top, holy
Sure, I can manage them

[MrGeneric]

Wonderful, thank you very much! Whenever you get the home thread made up for Hunter x Hunter, just post it here, and I’ll get it added to the first post! If you have any questions regarding scheduling, please feel free to bring them up, and we will hammer out a schedule!

---

Other orders of business:

I just made a ton of changes to the first post (moving things around as they should be after the poll end, and the like); if I messed anything up that I didn’t spot, and you spot it, let me know so I can fix it!

I have also gone ahead and removed 日本昔ばなしアニメ絵本 18冊全巻セット - Japanese Fairy Tales - Set of 18 books from the list of nominations, as discussed. This does not mean that it can never be nominated again, but be reasonable if you choose to do so and really weigh out if you think it has a chance to win, or if it would just end up in the same cycle again.

Related to that point, while I will keep an eye on how many nominations we have at any given point, I think we ought to start following the <25% support in the past 3 polls means it gets removed from the nominations rule. We could be a little more lenient and bump that up to 4 polls, given that we do have a lower influx of nominations than other clubs by nature of having less suitable material. If it seems like we will start to starve ourselves of options by doing so, I will gladly reverse this line of thinking, or if somebody really strongly disagrees and can make a solid case as to why we shouldn’t implement it at all, please speak up!

Side-note: To elaborate further on this, for the time being, I’ll only remove one nomination at a time to ease us into the rule, unless we suddenly get a large influx of nominations and it feels like we can safely remove several!

Anyhow, on that note, nominations are always accepted, even if the title doesn’t say we are currently seeking nominations, so just a reminder to everyone to feel free to put those nominations in whenever you like if you have them! The earlier you put them in, the more chance people have to see the sample pages and judge the difficulty, so we can get a better sampling of how appropriate it may be for the club as a whole (so long as everyone votes in the difficulty polls! nudge nudge)!

[hakulus]

First question about Hunter x Hunter: Does X mean vs (versus) or something else?

[MrGeneric]

It’s not an x, but a ×. It’s a multiplication symbol.

It’s essentially just a stylistic choice, by my understanding, put there so that people wouldn’t think it’s Hunters hunting other hunters, but just the word Hunter repeated twice (seems that didn’t work out, eh? ). It’s not even intended to be said when you say the name aloud.

But that’s not necessarily a hard and fast rule. Some manga/anime have the same symbol and intend for you to pronounce it, such as ロミオ×ジュリエット、where it’s pronounced as と (meaning “and”, obviously).

So, the tl;dr: it doesn’t mean much here besides to show that it’s not a “Hunter” hunter, but just the same word twice; and it’s not intended to be pronounced.

[ChristopherFritz]

Another example of random(?) × usage: SPY×FAMILY

[MrGeneric]

Random usage, and funnily enough, inspired by Hunter × Hunter.

Per the editor:

I just slapped a placeholder name on it at the draft submission stage. Endo-sensei sent in this draft for a serialization without deciding on the title, so we just worked with the title “Spy Family” written in Japanese characters for the time being. And then, when it was actually going to become a real thing, we decided we’d better have a proper name for it. It took us forever to decide on anything! (laughs) I thought “Spy Family” written in Japanese was just fine, but Endo-sensei was worried it was a little too… straight-forward. I swear, he came up with over a hundred names and we went over all of them together. And at the end of it all, we just took the name we had and put it in English characters, with a cross between the words. We talked about how the title of “HUNTER x HUNTER” is super simple, and it how it has the same thing going on.

[ChristopherFritz]

ふだつきのキョーコちゃん

Summary

Fudatsuki Kenji is known in school for two things: for being a delinquent and for having a sister complex. He constantly follows his sister Kyoko around, fixing her giant ribbon and chasing off any boys who might be interested in her. However, the truth is much stranger than people believe. He actually doesn’t have a crush on his sister—in fact, he likes Hibino, the only girl in class who isn’t afraid of him.

The problem is that his sister is literally a monster. She’s a jiangshi (vampire), who is much stronger than an ordinary person and who needs a certain amount of blood from Kenji each day. Her ribbon keeps her in check, but if it comes off, she instinctively attacks the nearest person. Her ribbon also has a huge effect on her personality. With the ribbon, she’s irritable and sharp-tempered, but without it, she’s extremely sweet and apologetic (while she attacks). Will Kenji be able to keep his sister from hurting anyone, and maybe find some way to overcome his sister-complex reputation enough to have a chance with Hibino?

(copied from MyAnimeList)

Availability

Physical: Amazon JP・CDJapan

Digital: Kindle・Kobo・BOOK☆WALKER

Personal Opinion

As an earlier work from the creator of Teasing-Master Takagi-san and When will Ayumu make his move?, this series has a similar charm. For fans of those series, I feel this one will be a good fit.

Pros and Cons for the Book Club

Pros

• Similar difficulty to other works by this mangaka that were well received in the ABBC.
• Has recurring themes from chapter to chapter.
• Uses furigana.
• The series is complete at seven volumes, so if you want to keep reading, you don’t hit a drought waiting for releases.

Cons

• Heavier in dialogue than the noted other works.
• Longer chapters mean every chapter would be split across multiple weeks.

Pictures

First Three Pages of Chapter One

Additional Pages

Difficulty Poll

How much effort would you need to read this book?

• No effort at all
• Minimal effort
• Moderate effort
• Substantial effort
• So much effort my head might explode
• I don’t know

[MrGeneric]

I halfway feel like I’m cheating a bit by voting in this difficulty poll; being so familiar with Yamamoto-sensei’s writing style at this point, that “minimal effort” vote might even be a bit of a stretch… Maybe I’ll take my vote out when it’s time to do the averages.

And now I can’t help but wonder if you are about to nominate くノ一, and that’s the typing I’m seeing…

[ChristopherFritz]

ちいさな森のオオカミちゃん

Summary

There is a small forest on the outskirts of a village. That place has been feared by people since a time long past. Within that forest is a strong(?) and scary(???) wolf.

This series follows the daily life of the kind and hardworking オオカミちゃん and the animals she lives among.

Availability

Physical: Amazon JP・CDJapan

Digital: Kindle・Kobo・BOOK☆WALKER

Personal Opinion

An adorable and easy-going series. Situations and dialogue in this series are fairly simple while still being enjoyable as a slice-of-life series.

Pros and Cons for the Book Club

Pros

• Simple situations with easy dialogue.
• Slice-of-life.
• Uses furigana.
• Large resolution images for digital readers.

Cons

• The turtle uses 老人語(ろうじんご).

Pictures

First Three Pages of Chapter One

Additional Pages

Difficulty Poll

How much effort would you need to read this book?

• No effort at all
• Minimal effort
• Moderate effort
• Substantial effort
• So much effort my head might explode
• I don’t know

[ChristopherFritz]

@MrGeneric

I halfway feel like I’m cheating a bit by voting in this difficulty poll

Just wait until you see the difficulty of my second nomination there as a comparison.

@MrGeneric

And now I can’t help but wonder if you are about to nominate くノ一

Nah, if I waited so long to start reading it due to outfit designs, I wouldn’t nominate it, due to outfit designs. But if someone else nominated it and it was picked, I’d follow the club. (And I’m still going to continue reading the series.)