霧のむこうのふしぎな町 | Week 1 Discussion 🌬 🏘

It’s interesting that you both mention this… I haven’t posted up any questions yet because I have been trying very poorly to read outload with my instructor on skype… so I’ve had a captive native speaker and live dictionary, grammar expert right there…this question came up yesterday… around のす.

She said she would have said it was んです, but she did say that のね isn’t wrong either. But she wouldn’t say it that way…so either sort of works. Now that I see it again this morning, I think んです。 is probably better, but what do I know. :confounded:

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I’m up to this line:

舗装(ほそう)されていない(みち)ばたの雑草(ざっそう)にも(えき)建物(たてもの)にも(つち)ぼこりがあつくかかっている」

My initial reaction.

Manga never prepared me for this!

This is a very early sentence, but it’s still very early in the week. I wasn’t certain what I should “spoiler”, so I’ve put everything behind “details”. This whole post is about the above sentence.

Parts of the Sentence

Parts of the Sentence

Okay, I can break this down into clauses and such. The two にも help out with this.

  • ((舗装+されて+いない)道ばた+の+雑草)にも
  • (駅+の+建物)にも
  • 土ぼこり+が + (あつく+かかって+いる)
Core Sentence

Core Sentence

The very core of this sentence is:

土ぼこりが+いる

土ぼこり (“dust”) is the subject. And its action is いる (“to exist”).

So the core sentence is “dust exists”.

Everything else is fluff detail that builds on top of that.

Building up the Verb

Building up the Verb

あつく+かかって+いる

あつい can be “hot” or “thick”; since I’ve never encountered “hot dust” but I’ve seen “thick dust” (it piles up everywhere!), context tells me that this is “thick”. And the verb あつい is an adverb when the い is replaced by く, so “thickly”.

The verb it’s modifying is かかる, which is the verb used when something covers something, such as dust covering. So, あつくかかる is “thickly covers”.

With the いる, this gives the verb as “exists (in the state of) thickly covering”.

Victims of a Cover-Up

Victims of a Cover-Up

The core of this portion is 建物にも・雑草にも. Everything else builds on top of these two nouns.

The second is straightforward: 建物 is “building”, but which building specifically? 駅+の is “(train) station’s”. So, it’s the station’s building. This is one of the things which the “dust thickly covers”. “Dust thickly covers the train station.”

I was hoping that one would take longer… Okay, on to the first one.

The core of this portion is the noun 雑草 or “weed”. It also has a modifier, 道ばた+の, meaning “roadside’s”. This is the “roadside’s weed”, which would be said in English as “weeds alongside the road”.

However, this is also modified, by 舗装+されて+いない.

舗装 is “pavement”.

されて is from される, which is the receptive form of する, so “to receive pavement”.

いない is the negative form of いる, meaning “to not exist”.

Thus, this isn’t just any “roadside”, it’s roadside which “is not (in the state of) receiving pavement”, or simply “unpaved roadside”.

“Dust thickly covers the weeds alongside the unpaved road.”

Finding にも

Finding にも

The particles に and も are combined here, but should be looked at separately.

に marks a target, and can be used to say things like “book on the table”. に tells us that the thick covering of dust is “on” the weeds, and is “on” the building. The dust didn’t start out there originally, but at one point in time these came to be the destination of the dust. The dust went toward these things and came to be there, so it is now “on” these things.

も is similar to は in being a topic marker, but it conveys inclusiveness. If the book simple said “dust is thickly covering” without setting the topic, then we might think リナ or the 女の人 is covered in dust. To avoid this confusion, the topic is set to the building, but it’s also set to the weeds. Since multiple items are inclusively set as the topic, も is used rather than は.

I will now re-read the sentence multiple times with this understanding, and hopefully it’ll start to become natural!

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I feel like you’re going to confuse people by saying the verb is いる and means “to exist”. Sure, the ている form involves attaching いる to the て form, but it serves its own grammatical purpose. In both of these cases, the ている form represents a persistent state. 舗装ほそうされていない represents the state of (the road) being unpaved. かかっている represents the state of (the buildings and weeds) being covered (in dust).

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omg so true!

I can actually help with this! I think maybe I can repay the help you’ve given me on the last book…

…this is how I broke it down… (admit I didn’t do this alone…had some help from my instructor on skype)…You get the idea and I think it’s not a big deal but this is what I ended up with…

Summary

“There is a thick layer of dust on the unpaved roadside weeds and station buildings.”

I envision something like the Bodie ghost town (if you haven’t been)… it’s something like this (think maybe old westerns)…

舗装されていない道ばたの雑草ざっそうにも駅えきの建物たてものにも土つちぼこりがあつくかかっている

One of the few times Google translate does a decent job: “There is dirt on both the unpaved roadside weeds and the station buildings.”

Broken down:

舗装されていない = this is the suru verb (pavement/road surface) in it’s “passive + past perfect + negative form” says my instructor… I’m like duh…what does that mean… (so looked it up and found a little cheat sheet…should I be ashamed stupid English in my native language … lol ) :

道ばたの雑草ざっそうにも = roadside weeds (I read にも as “on also”)

駅えきの建物たてものにも = train station buildings (on also)

土つちぼこり = cloud of dust

が = subject particle

あつく = thick (adverb)

かかっている = to be covered with (continuing) [as @seanblue] mentioned.
…it’s just like read 本を読むvs reading (actively - not past read) 本を読んでいる.

Hope that helps!

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I’m starting to suspect that とも is けど. At least sometimes it seems to fit. Other times it just seems like filler, though I guess けど is also sometimes just filler. Can anyone confirm? I don’t recall if とも shows up in these first few pages, but I figured I’d bring it up now in case it helps anyone.

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If it looks useful, please stick it in the dialect page on the vocab spreadsheet…

@tonina One of those sentences (and the suggestion that のす=です) is also on the dialect page.

Well I’d want someone to confirm before adding it. I couldn’t find anything online from a quick search.

minor correction… should be んです。(not just です)

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cc @seanblue and @shuly

When I was checking the rules for 津軽弁 and noticed the す sentence ended, I got really excited and immediately posted about it. I didn’t have the book with me, but I thought that must be it.

When I checked, I noticed the same thing as you and went on a wild goose chase to try to identify the dialect. I couldn’t find anything, which proves nothing, but makes me suspect it’s an invented one. I tried to check the comments on bookmeter and the likes, but native only call it “方言".

Anyway, if anything, I now feel like ね is え (as in the 見てわかるえ sentence). のす could be です or んです, not sure. It’s a bit strange for the policeman to use んです but what do I know :woman_shrugging:

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That didn’t occur to me, but it’s in line with my other thought that おの (said by the woman) might be もの.

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Oh! That one didn’t occur to me. It makes sense!

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haha…more than me… my info came from a native speaker :wink: (of course not from that region of Japan…so yeah who knows)… haven’t interacted with the Japanese police so I don’t know if んです is something an officer would say or not

====edit=====

This is in line with what my instructor told me :slight_smile:

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More so that an adult has no reason to use です with a kid.

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The WaniKani forums has a “bookmark” feature you can use to mark a thread so that you can conveniently access it.

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Hello, question about Chapter 1 Title. Is at the end a destination particle?

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Thank you very very much! Super helpful!

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Ok, thank you very much!!

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yup ! as in ”to the misty valley””… not really a spoiler so not going to hide it :slight_smile:

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