英国 UK/England interchangeability

This is wrong. Wales is a country, differently from the regions of Japan.

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That’s just getting pedantic about the terminology. Wales is part of the UK. They know where the UK is.

I’m pretty sure Wales is not considered a 国 in Japanese. And if it is, it’s a special definition of 国 that only applies to the UK.

It’s starting to make more sense now though, this impression that they should feel offended when people don’t know Wales even if they themselves don’t know the geography of some other country, because they happen to use “country” for the major pieces of their country.

Actually, they have a lot of problems placing the UK as a whole, too. People criticizing Americans’ geographical knowledge should try working in Japan.

It’s not surprising, really, but it is frustrating - but, this isn’t exclusive to Japan. My partner is Irish (not Northern) and people call him “British” pretty much everywhere outside of the UK, which is actually really contentious. Obviously this is all really complicated and I’m simplifying things a LOT, but Ireland was colonized and ruled by England for about 800 years (followed by literally decades of violent uprisings and terrorism that is still occurring ), so I don’t think it’s all that strange that some people might have strong opinions on the subject.

Again, this is a huge, messy, complex issue - I’m definitely not trying to start a political discussion or anything, I just thought it was worth pointing out the complexity (and that it’s not just Japan where the distinction is disregarded).

Sure, but legally, Ireland IS its own country. Most of the world sees Wales/Scotland/England/Northern Ireland as regions of the UK, not countries. The UK is the country. Kind of equivalent to the American states. Washington and Louisiana aren’t countries, but they are distinct areas with distinct governments.

At least, that’s the way I learned it in school…

Wales is a small and seldom spoken of country, you can’t expect people to be able to place it. How well can you place the states of the US, the countries of South America, Africa, or Asia? People just aren’t that well versed in geography.

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I’m going to start telling people I’m from Connecticut when they ask what country I’m from :slight_smile:

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I personally don’t care, I’m Italian, why would I. But I happen to live close to Wales, and people there are really proud of being a “country”, not just a piece of a country. Let’s just remember that Wales has its own language (Welsh), it’s own parliament, it’s own football team, you name it.

Now if people in Japan don’t know about Wales, it’s totally fine. I can’t name all States that make up the US. But I also don’t make excuses for my ignorance.

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I get why you say they’ve got this perspective, and that’s fine. They just shouldn’t be surprised if they consider themselves part of a country and a country at the same time that no one really cares about the distinction as much as they do.

A country like China has far more mutual unintelligibility between languages and I doubt the Welsh are worked up about not knowing the details.

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but legally, Wales/Scotland/England are also separate countries?? They even have different parliaments and educational systems - I’m not expecting people to be able to know the intricacies of this stuff, but it’s categorically inaccurate to say “the UK is the country”. It’s more complicated on the NI front, but as I said, that’s something that people are literally rioting over to this day.

full disclosure: I’m a dual US/UK citizen, born and raised in the states until I was in my early teens and have lived in England for half my life, so I can definitely see both sides of this argument! Not trying to pick a fight, just think it’s worth spreading accurate information :slight_smile:

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Well, in the case of China, we can use Hong Kong or Macau as examples. And from the people I know there, they really do care about the distinction. I understand their need to retain their status as autonomous territories.

All the US states have their own legislatures and education systems, etc…

And while I’m sure some Americans will be offended if you don’t know their state, I don’t really see how their situation is more worthy of shrugging off than this Wales one.

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I think in a lot of cases it’s a matter of being lazy more than being uneducated. At least in my country, people can sometimes say England and Great Britain interchangeably (and I’ve never heard the word for United Kingdom used in my language), but if you ask them they do know the difference - Great britain just takes longer to say and people know what you mean if you just say England.

I don’t know if it’s the same in Japan though.

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Sorry if this is becoming the Welsh independence thread. I guess we are all saying the same thing after all. It’s not surprising if people don’t know the distinction, but the people who know better can say ウェールズ人. That’s it really.

Not trying to be inflammatory, this question is purely out of curiosity and ignorance: Would you say Wales/Scotland/etc are similar to, say, Canada and Australia and other Commonwealth countries, or is there a distinction?

I honestly don’t know much about Canada or Australia, but I know that all Irish, Welsh & Scottish people I’ve known show remarkable national pride for their own countries, and animosity towards England in particular.

this might also address @Leebo as well, re:offense - I think it comes down to the centuries of colonization that England enacted on them? I’m an American and I don’t really care about people not knowing anything about my home state, but individualized UK nationalism is a particularly sore subject at the moment, with brexit and all. Scotland is actually considering a referendum to become independent from the UK!

(I guess my point is that, over here, it really does matter to people, even if you don’t feel like it should.)

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I’m really learning a lot today, thanks for being patient with me. Wasn’t there just a referendum where Scotland voted to stay? Are they considering the vote again? I guess there are two different definitions of country going on here? Maybe independence is the distinction… But yeah, I think what you’re getting from me is what most people learn in school outside the UK. It’s pretty hard to know all the delicate intricacies if politics and borders for every country in the world, so I think some level of forgiveness for ignorance is necessary. Hell, a fair amount of Americans can’t even name every state in our own country, let alone point them out on a map.

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The United Kingdom is not a country, it is a collection of countries that all recognise the same monarch. Throughout ‘British’ history the rulers have also ruled over parts of what are now Denmark, the Netherlands, Germany, and France - at some points they did not rule Scotland, Wales or any portion of Ireland. Just because they have the same monarch doesn’t make them one country.

All that said, I do understand your comparison with Japanese regions, as historically they were separate Shogunates with their own rulers all serving under the Emperor.

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The island of Shikoku is called 四国 because, traditionally, it was made up of 4 different “countries” and Kyushu 九州 was nine different “states.” I don’t think the Japanese have a problem with understanding the concept of “countries within a larger ‘country’” as it was only a little over a hundred years ago that the feudal hans were replaced with the current prefecture system.

On the other hand, there are no Welsh or Scottish embassies anywhere, and all the kingdoms within the United Kingdom use the pound sterling. For all intents and purposes, the UK presents itself internationally as a single entity (except during the World Cup rofl) and any distinctions between the different member states boil down to internal political and cultural differences. It’s not reasonable to expect people who live on the other side of the world to know all the ins and outs of the British national identity debate.

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While I understand completely why people consider Wales, Scotland, England, and Northern Ireland separate countries within the UK, for those of us outside the UK, we see that the UK is a sovereign country in Western Europe with a government and a currency, military, army, capital, monarchy, and international representation. Not true for Wales, Scotland (so far), or the rest. In fact if Scotland is already a full-fledged country, why would they have conducted a referendum on independence?

And as far as whether people from other parts of the world should be able to place, say, Wales on a map, well, should we also be expected to place the Republic of Buryatia?

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