犬神家の一族(金田一耕助 Reading Club)

Welcome @aggoro ! :smiley: Have fun reading! I think you’ve picked a good book to join, it’s pretty fun so far. It does spoil some of the murders of the previous main entries, but… Not in much detail, luckily.

I think you mean the other brother. I’m not actually sure how to read his name. Is it Sukechi?

I had the same thought! But then to see that someone called 猿三… What if it was 金田一 looking for clues in the abandoned house, and he’s now laying a trap for 猿三…?

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Whoops, yes, I meant Suketomo (in my copy this is furigana’d on page 11).

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Yokomizo Seishi don’t rape women challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

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I keep reading ahead without posting anything, then can’t remember what exactly happened in each chapter :upside_down_face:.

But anyway, I still like the book, though I’m not putting much thought into the mystery this time. Probably because the mystery is more “who and why” rather than “how.”

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Chapter 5 notes

I was surprised by 佐智 here for the reasons we were discussing when 佐武 was similarly awful, but it made me belatedly realize what makes the will situation especially so grim is: while to our perspective not being awful rich dudes in the 1940s, it’s at least up to her which to choose to marry one of these bad options or not - to the awful rich 1940s dudes it’s “she has to marry me or she loses a giant pile of money.” Especially now that one of the alternatives is dead and the other apparently disfigured.
The entitlement and assumption she’d see his way one way or another seemed unpleasantly realistic.

Completely separately, I liked the lonely reed-surrounded wreck of the old man’s old house in the river delta a lot as a setting.
I wonder if rule of threes means this kind of thing is going to happen one more time with 佐清? I do also assume 佐智 is toast, thankfully. I guess if so, the remaining outcomes inheritance-wise are 珠世 marries 佐清 and gets everything, or she doesn’t and 佐清 gets the remainder… or 静馬 is found and gets all or most of the remainder if anyone else dies or those two don’t marry?
Speculating… I wonder if it would make any sense at all if 佐清 is the mystery man who intervened here, and the one who passed the print comparison,
while 静馬 is the one who’s disfigured? That would mean 静馬 would be the one searching for something in 珠世’s room (then knocked out, with a second swap made by 佐清)… and he would have a reason to! The watch has a fingerprint of what in this far-fetched scenario would be 静馬’s, which could still be compared to reveal this convoluted ruse. But the knockout and 松子’s surprise make it unclear weather anyone involved in this hypothetical scheme is actually cooperating with each other, which wouldn’t make a lot of sense… and the motive remains unclear also. But I suppose overthinking possible harebrained mystery novel schemes is part of the fun when I have all these notes to draw on…

P.S.:

Alas, my muscle memory from writing it down a bunch is sad to report it is 猿蔵

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Chapter 6:

Looks like I was right about the 斧琴菊 themed killings. The bit about the ropes having been looser then tightened was interesting; it suggests we have two or three people involved:

  • the guy in the old army uniform, who tied up Suketomo but left him alive, and phoned Saruzou to come collect Tamayo
  • an unknown second person, who did the actual murder later that evening
  • possibly a third person, who did the symbolic thing with the koto wire

Obviously 2 and 3 could be the same, but it’s curious that the koto wire wasn’t just used as the murder weapon. Wasn’t there something about the other guy being stabbed with a different kind of weapon to that was used to take his head off too?

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Yup (see Rodan’s chapter 5 notes).

Maybe one person is killing people for money-scheming reasons, and someone else is taking advantage of that to do the 斧琴菊 stuff? Though I’m not sure how Suketomo’s delayed murder fits in.

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Chapter 6 notes

Pretty much just logistics this chapter but I like the 斧琴菊 angle a lot.
I wonder what 松子 has to say… I imagine it’ll be a pretty big piece of the puzzle.

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Currently halfway through chapter 5, I’m catching up!

On a seperate note, it seems like every Japanese person I speak to has seen the movie adaption of this book; I didn’t realise it was so popular.

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Chapter 7:

I know when the author stops to recap the plot it’s a “hey, try solving the mystery now” cue, but I’m always too lazy :slight_smile:

It’s definitely looking like we have some “two masked men” shenanigans going on. That suggests to me that it was Matsuko who got the early sighting of the will and set this scheme up. Presumably the idea is to kill the other two claimants and make everybody think it was the Aonumas getting their revenge. Then you kill off the fake Sukekiyo to complete the pattern and get rid of a guy who knows your secret. On the other hand, if everybody thinks Sukekiyo is dead then he doesn’t inherit and it all goes to Tamayo, and if you reveal he’s not dead after all then you draw suspicion to yourself…

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What if the real Sukekiyo is the patsy, and her real accomplice/the fake Sukekiyo is Shizuma? (The dead sons’ shares go to Shizuma, not Tamayo, don’t they?) Maybe Matsuko and Shizuma are lovers, the book is definitely messed up enough to go there

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Chapter 7 Notes

出た! The upside down legs are the other element (along with 佐清’s mask) that I knew was in this book. I was almost beginning to think it was maybe just how the movie depicted the discovery of 佐武’s corpse…
The legs are on the movie poster (and a strangely unappealing blu ray cover that’s nothing but the legs), and there’s even an action figure version:
image
(they come along with a masked 佐清)
image
Tweets from MinovskyArticle about Inugami that involved either that action figure or the movie poster with the legs are where I first learned about Yokomizo in the first place, when I was especially keen for intriguing novels in Japanese to read…
There’s also an entire story in the book 文字渦 which I read last year that references Inugami Family heavily and riffs extensively on the idea of inverting kanji like this. I didn’t know though that would be an element in the original too! I wonder how that part gets translated? I suppose maybe the names of the 3 treasures get mentioned enough that the reveal works as “yoki”? I feel like I should have internalized that reading better sooner to have had the barest of chances of seeing where things were going…
Anyway, the very fun/grisly silly rebus is right up my alley, so I’m very glad to at last know what the deal with those legs is!

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I guess they could change his name to Alexa or something :thinking:. Or maybe you just need a hefty footnote to explain why kiyo backwards is yoki instead of oyik.

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Asked some people and apparently they just play it straight and explain the Japanese. “Yoki koto kiku” is apparently introduced/used in the translation as well, so they already have “yoki” established. Also apparently they drop the "Suke"s from the names so they’re just Kiyo/Take/Tomo.

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Very interesting, thanks!

Dropping the “Suke” is interesting but I suppose it makes sense… it would probably make the names easier to differentiate in English, and it’s not like the connection to 佐兵衛’s name would be clear at all…

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One week away from the final chapter and I’m finally caught up! Hurrah!

And with that said, I have very little new to add! :smiley:

As has been said before, it seems pretty likely we have a two mask situation going on. I’m guessing that in most instances the masked 佐清 is an imposter and may actually be 静馬 in disguise? They seem to be quite cold with 松子 during all their interactions, especially when 香琴 was present, and if I remember correctly they were visibly shaking when 松子 was recounting the story of how she and her sisters retook the 犬神 family treasures from 菊乃. That said, everyone was taken aback at the time, so it may not be significant.

If that is the case, presumably 佐清 and 静馬 came to meet each other during the war and all three of them planned this in Tokyo whilst the whole family was waiting for 佐清’s return, which as PM said, would be predicated on 松子 being the one that payed off 若林 in order to look at the will in advance, before having him poisoned. But wasn’t it presumed that 珠世 would be the only person who 若林 would do such a thing for? I feel as though she’s definitely scheming something of her own but I have no idea what.

Final thoughts before starting chapter 8; I wouldn’t be surprised if 松子 did plan to have the imposter 佐清 killed and thinks that the upside-down corpse is 静馬, only to be shocked to find out that it is actually 佐清 in the lake and she has been betrayed! :scream_cat:

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I hadn’t even noticed the connection to 佐兵衛’s name until you just said so!

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Chapter 8 reveals the killer so get your deductions done now if you want to play along :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, only one chapter left and… I don’t really see the big deal about the book. Maybe there will be some huge twist at the last second, and it’s nowhere near the awfulness of 夜歩く, but I’m also not particularly impressed.

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Interesting; I haven’t quite finished chapter 8 yet, but so far this is one of Yokomizo’s books I’ve liked the most – not because it’s super clever or surprising, but just as good cheesy fun.

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I don’t usually do this for mystery novels, but I thought it might be fun to try to make a full unified theory attempting to explain everything going on.

Here’s my attempt - it’s probably very far-fetched.

The wording around who 若林 would show the will to phrases it as he’d cave “if it were for 珠世’s sake” - so let’s run with that and the person with the peak at the will wasn’t 珠世 but 猿蔵, off the argument that he can protect 珠世 that way (which 若林 would agree could very likely be necessary given its contents). Then 猿蔵 stages the threats on 珠世’s life – but he’s always around to make sure it’s not actually deadly. The reason he’s doing this is because – gasp! – he’s actually the second son of 菊乃, born after she handed off 静馬 to relatives, and himself handed off to a relative: 珠世’s mom, 祝子. So he’s raised with 珠世, but unlike her he got from his mom the whole backstory and revenge plan. And so he sees this will situation as the now or never time to enact this revenge, and stages these attempts on 珠世 to throw off suspicion.
So that’s why 若林 being able to talk to 金田一 could have prevented deaths, because it would have implicated 猿蔵 and uncovered this web of connections sooner. But in this telling, 猿蔵 kills 若林 with the poisoned cigarette to further throw off the scent.

The biggest confusing thing to me is what the switcheroo with the masks could possibly accomplish, and for whom. I’m theorizing here that the answer is that the two 佐清s are 佐清 and… 山田. The former gains safety, and the latter (thinks he) gains money.
佐清 at war happens to meet and recognize (lets say he heard enough of his mom’s story to be able to) 静馬 (let’s say by noticing a particular burn scar on his ass). And 佐清 learns about the revenge scheme, and perhaps even about 猿蔵. And so he knows that “佐清” will be marked for death on his return, and by the very close companion of 珠世. Then 静馬 dies, and this guy 山田 gets horribly scarred, probably both in a way 佐清 had a hand in. He pitches to 山田: hey, I feel awfully guilty for scarring your face, and I’m sick of my horrible overbearing family and I don’t care at all about the money, I want to run away with 珠世 - let’s swap: you can have my family’s fortune, I just want 珠世.
佐清 repatriates as 山田, 山田 as 佐清. 松子’s not in on it, but in a mixture of detail fed to 山田 and 松子’s greed, she wants to believe and remains suspicious but goes with it (later when the temporary swap back happens and the handprint is proved, she feels as much shock as anybody her suspicions are allayed).

Then the 佐武 and 佐智 murders would be 山田, or anybody else really, doing the murder to get in a position for more money, and 猿蔵 being the one who sets up the revenge-foretelling symbolism. 山田 doesn’t know the dangerous position he’s in until they’ve swapped out to “prove” his identity and try to steel the watch and swapped back afterward again, and the secret backstory is revealed. But by then it’s too late and 猿蔵 dunks him in the lake to form the ax.

Then from the real 佐清’s prespective – revenge is now satisfied, and he can come forward as “静馬” to get the money. They’re related enough to make it just barely believable with 佐清 “proved” dead, particularly if he himself didn’t make it through the war completely unscathed. And those most likely to buy this, 珠世 and his mom, can be convinced enough to make do and keep quiet. Then if the scheme all goes to plan, 佐清 inherits the maximum amount of money 静馬 can inherit, no competition for 珠世’s hand, and no revenge plot against him.

I think the weakest parts of this theory are that the 佐清->静馬 part of the scheme is very tenuous, it seems like it would be easier to just kill or report 猿蔵 if he knew he was going to be doing murders, and I also didn’t care enough to track the positions and importance of the brooch, watch, or button, when ideally they would be important somehow.

I think the strongest part is I like the misdirection around 猿蔵 not being 静馬 and the assumption that 静馬 must be around somewhere because of the revenge symbolism. I also think that 佐清 + some real guy named 山田 working together makes more sense than 佐清+静馬 when it seems like the latter two would be mortal enemies.

An alternative possible trick I didn’t fit in: I wonder if someone, most likely 球世, could have tampered with the 手形 in the temple? She’s from a family that used to run that temple, right? And that could explain some of the strange reactions in the print-comparison, and be what she could have said but didn’t at the time. In my theory above I suppose that would have just been “hey but can you take off your mask too though?” or something from her intuition suggesting they were different people, but that’s a little weak.

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