時をかける少女: Week 10 Discussion (Chapters 16 and 17)

Japanese Language Reading
#98

I do feel like this chapter 16 was harder. There was one really long sentence towards the beginning that killed me, and then some more.

Okay, first question:

あるいは、おどかしたり、すかしたりしなければならないかもしれない。

I’m not sure about the meaning of すかしたり. Jisho gives me to put on airs, or to look through for すかす but I’m not sure if any of those are this one. Is she saying she might have to stand up to the “bad guy”?

Fun fact: did you know I don’t know any grammar?
It took me a while of maximum googling to find out which grammar point could explain 思えば思うほど to me, and it made me wonder if you guys have some secret technique to find grammar explanations more easily.

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#99

賺す すかす to coax. :slight_smile:

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#100

Oh boy, I’m blind.
Aren’t kanji the best?
Thanks!

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#101

I dunno about secret technique, but (though I’m already familiar with the grammar) I would have googled either directly the whole phrase “思えば思うほど grammar/意味” (if I didn’t know what was happening) or, if I realized it was probably a set construction, “～ば～ほど grammar”
I just googled both and they both led me to useful results, so hopefully that gives you some idea.

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#102

I usually check Bunpro first. :slight_smile:

Sometimes it’s a matter of figuring out what parts to search for. For example, if I couldn’t find 思えば思うほど specifically, I’d just try ば or ほど. That could be too vague of a search on google, but it’s great for Bunpro.

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#103

They should have used an animated gif with no movement :laughing:

Thanks! I’ve probably learned about a million ways to say “even something” from this book

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#104

Finallly managed to get through these! And i agree with most everyone that those were a bit harder than previous chapters.

Because I was so late though, I went with the ‘don’t look anything up and see what you get’ approach and read those two that way (great chapters to do that with, me). Anyway, understood surprisingly well what’s happening, but a few places here and there did give me trouble.
Not planning on following up on that for now, but I might when I reread the book later on, who knows.

Now onwards and upwards to chapter 18 and all the secrets that shall be unravelled.

@Naphthalene yep, I was kinda suspicious from the beginning. that being said, it was so obvious, I also kinda doubted myself xD the more you know I guess

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#105

General spoilers for the book and anime movie:

I suspected him as well, but mostly because there was a similar development in the anime adaptation. While they are technically different characters and stories, I had a feeling they would have similar themes.

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#106

Yeah I’m pretty sure I was slightly biased from watching the film as well. That being said, the book DID make it pretty obvious xD

#107

Managed to have no time to post these questions for six days, somehow.

Tsubasa Bunko ed.

Page 90

この人間のために和子は苦しみ、人間ばなれのした経験をしなくてはならなかったのだ。

Does 人間ばなれ mean something like ‘not human’? Jisho gives me ばなれ as meaning ‘separation from’ or ‘alienation’, so I’m guessing it was an experience outside of the normal human experience, or perhaps that alienated her from feeling human?

And then I get a bit lost with all the negatives. Could someone give me an overall meaning?

Page 92

友達から、自分が他の人間と違っているように見られるのが、いやだった。

Ignoring the 友達から, I would interpret this as “being seen as being different from others humans was awful”, and I’m guessing it’s “being seen this way by her friends”, but I’m not quite sure why it would be から there?

それに、自分がいくら頼んでも、その人間が、いうことをきいてくれないという場合も考えられる。

I’m confused by the end of the sentence. “That person might also consider the case (option) that they don’t listen to what I say”? Even if that’s correct, it just seems like a really convoluted way to express that sentiment.

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#108

That’s what I feel is being said here. An “experience that under normal circumstances shouldn’t be experienced by people”. If that made her feel alienated or not, I’m not sure, but I guess it’s possible.

As I understand it: Due to this person Kazuko suffered and, let’s say, ‘had to go through the ordeal’ (that’s what I think the しなくてはならなかった is doing) of experiencing a 人間ばなれのした経験.

から is going with 見られる to indicated who is seeing her that way. She is talking about being seen by her friends as different from other people. The role から plays in the Japanese sentence is the same ‘by’ plays in the English.

Think of this sentence this way:

それに、(自分がいくら頼んでも、その人間が、いうことをきいてくれない)という場合も考えられる。

She’s saying that it’s also possible (if you translate it literally, ‘it can be though that…’) that even if she asks this person to make her normal again, they won’t listen to her and just won’t do it. You probably obtained your interpretation from assuming that 考える was something that その人間 was doing, but it’s just 和子 considering a possibility.

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#109

Cool, that clears that up - thank you.

Stupid spoiler quoting. So that’s what I was assuming the sentence meant. Those double negatives just don’t come naturally to me.

That was my assumption, it just didn’t… feel right :thinking: felt like it should be a に or something…

Okay cool, thank you. Actually, the way I first typed this question out was “who is doing the 考えるing?” :grin: because that was definitely contributing to my confusion.

But good to know the いうことをきいてくれないという場合 bit was pretty much what I thought. I don’t like 場合 :stuck_out_tongue:

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#110

に also works if you substitute it in. から might make more sense if you think of it as her hating being seen that way from the perspective of her friends.

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#111

Jisho also has an entry for 人間離れ - unwordly, superhuman

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#112

Just finished chapter 17. I liked the bit where he explains that time hasn’t really stopped, but they are travelling with the exact opposite velocity so it appears that way. I’m a physics nerd.

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#113

I didn’t really get a chance to post my thoughts on these chapters until now, but…

Chapter 16 and 17 spoilers

Kazuko has said repeatedly that one big thing she dislikes about her ability is that it makes her different or weird to others. Which of course, middle schoolers are still kids and still worry about the whole “being different” thing, but it also feels like that combined with Japanese culture’s heavy conformity. With time travel powers the notion of ruining your (or someone else’s) life is quite frightening as well, but it’s not touched on as much, at least in terms of her personal thoughts.

In chapter 17, I honestly felt uncomfortable throughout the scene with Kazuo there. Some of that is due to disbelief, him not explaining things, and Kazuko being shaken by this turn of events. But some of it felt uncomfortable from a girl’s perspective. She’s alone with Kazuo, who Kazuko said seems adult-like in his mannerisms, who has traveled here from the future, who wields the power to alter time, who is taking Kazuko’s hand and making her move about the room, who previously did something to her to make this happen. All of those things combined made the scene unsettling to me.

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#114

Having finished these chapters and just starting this week’s… I am officially caught up for the first time since Christmas! Sure that’s no longer going to be true in about a day, but for the next ~24 hours I can enjoy the feeling.

Glad the consensus is that these were a bit more difficult than usual. I had a bit of trouble with ch17 but wasn’t sure if that was because I was reading my phone on the plane.

I totally called Kazuo although when she started talked about adult mannerisms I did wonder if sensei was involved. Sensei and Kazuo give me similar vibes.

Also, am I misremebering, or wasn’t it Kazuo who just stated in the last few chapters that if she went to them after leaping back they wouldn’t believe her without the earthquake and car wreck to support her? What the heck man?? Or maybe that Kazuo hadn’t leapt yet? Uhg time travel shenanigans.

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#115

Kazuo was just stating a fact. If she goes back before the time where they had the conversation where she convinced them of her powers, well, she would have to do it again. He can’t really say “don’t worry, I’ll believe you, ‘cause I made the stuff in the first place”

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#116

Not that I only just finished chapter 17 :eyes: after being so excited about being on track at the beginning of this week too!

Page 97

There are two places on this page where there’s a (to me) random character after a nominalising の:

しばらくぼうぜんとしたのち、和子は、はげしくかぶりを振った。

和夫は意外にも、あっさりとそういってのけ、軽くうなずいた。

Any insights into what they mean / bring?

Page 98

もうこうなれば、どんな狂気じみた話だろうと、最後まで聞かずにはいられなかった。

Not quite sure what じみた means in the middle there - “to have a touch of (sanity)”? I don’t get what the last clause of the sentence means either - “without listening until the very end… it’s not possible”??? If it has a touch of sanity she won’t know unless she listens until the end?

こんなとほうもないことをつぎつぎと聞かされたのでは、わたしは気が狂ってしまう！

I get that the overall meaning is that if she listens to this kind of insanity she’s going to go mad herself, but I am really lost in that first part of the sentence. ほうもないこと?!

Sorry for being so late :bowing_man:

#117

This one I think is のち, meaning basically the same thing as あと (also the same kanji).

Probably meaning 5/6 of のける (I don’t quite remember the context :sweat_smile:).

So ずにはいられない is its own grammar point (bunpro), meaning “can’t help but”. So it probably says something like “No matter how crazy the story seemed (this is where the じみた comes into play), she couldn’t help but listen until the end.” Does that make sense in context?

途方もない also has its own jisho entry, maybe this clears up some confusion. I think you got the overall meaning pretty spot on though.

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