時をかける少女: Week 1 Discussion (Chapter 1)


#141

Ah, okay! I wasn’t sure, thanks for clearing it up

I don’t have the source I found it in at the moment but it seems to just be a phrase in て-form.


#142

Thanks, that actually helped me find some stuff.

Eh, that makes sense I guess. I’m tired and dumb atm.

I guess it doesn’t make a difference in this sentence, but knowing whether something is an adverbial phrase versus a sequence of actions can be important sometimes. Like in translation or something.

Anyway, went down the grammar rabbit hole and these seemed the most useful, if anyone is interested.

て form and adverbial meaning

How can verb て become an adverb?


#143

From those topics I think
うす暗いへやの中を和子は目を細くして見まわした。
would be an adverbial clause.
Wouldn’t it be comparing “Kazuko squinted and then looked around the dimly lit room” and “Kazuko squinted as she looked around the dimly lit room”? Which in this case I think the second translation fits best :thinking:


#144

I don’t know nothing about those adverbial clause shenanigans, but it looks to me like the second translation would indeed be better.


#145

Yeah I think so too. Squinting and looking around the room can (and would probably) occur almost simultaneously, so it makes more sense to have it as an adverbial clause (which expands upon the main verb), rather than as a sequence.

Anyway, I dunno I’m a little confused because it seems like て form doesn’t differentiate between the two even though they’re pretty different IMHO. Fug me


#146

I suppose it’s a little up to interpretation and how you understand it.
I found what may be another example a little further on (it seems to be to me): かの女はしばらく、かたくしてたたずんだ。. “‘hardened’ herself (I can’t think of the word in English…) and stood stil” vs. “stood still ‘hardening’ herself”


#147

Yeah, we all know how much of Japanese is up to our own interpretations anyway :sweat_smile:


#148

The full sentence is かの女はしばらく、身をかたくしてたたずんだ。
Kenkyuusha dictionary says that ・〔緊張して〕 身を固くする to go stiff; to stiffen; to freeze
So it’s something like “She stood frozen for a while. (i.e. tensely waiting)


#149

Oops, I forgot the 身 >.<
That’s really helpful, thanks!~ Not what I thought it was either


#150

… Really? Because I don’t really see the difference between ‘hardening’ oneself, stiffening oneself and freezing oneself :thinking:


#151

Isn’t て form most simply translated as “and”? I feel like “and” is similarly vague about whether the actions were simultaneous or in sequence, we’re just more used to filling in the blanks in English.

Kazuko squinted and looked around the dimly lit room.

Sounds simultaneous, but “and” could just as easily be sequence:

I got up and ate breakfast.

If they wanted to emphasize/clarify it one way or the other, they could have used other grammar, such as ながら or あと.


#152

The 三省堂 doesn’t list that meaning either, so it appears to be rather rare. But 小鳥 makes no sense.


#153

Here’s the first result I got when I googled コトリ

かたい物どうしが触れたり、軽く当たったりしたときの音を表す語。
石鹸せっけん箱がことりと鳴る」
「二階ではことりとも音がしない」

source


#154

And the definition @Darcinon quoted comes from a dictionary published by 三省堂 :eyes:

Edit: wait no, scrolled too much. The one below does.


#155

Which 三省堂 dictionary was that? In mine (the 三省堂国語 for the iPad), there is only 小鳥 :frowning: .


#156

It’s listed in my iphone 大辞林 as well.
(多く「と」を伴って)かたく軽い物が物に当たって出る音を表す語。「隣室は静かで━ともしない」
Regardless, this seems like the kinda onomotopeia you can pick up from context? Though I guess that depends on how much of the surrounding text you understand.


#157

reading all the grammar expressions makes my head hurt. that’s not how i learned the language :slight_smile:


#158

Thank you!


#159

The Green Goddess has the following definition:
ことり
〔固いものがぶつかる小さな音〕 a (light) tap; a clink; a click.
・郵便受けでことりと音がした. The letter box clicked.
・彼女の部屋は夜が明けるまでことりともしなかった Her room was as quiet as the grave till dawn. | There wasn’t a sound from her room till dawn.


#160

When I was reading, I saw XXりと and registered it as an onomatopoeia I didn’t know, and then forgot about it a second later lol