斗 for ladle?

Why is ‘ladle’ the primary entry for 斗 vocab and kanji? It’s not in any dictionary listed here. Also 北斗 seems like a more practical vocab choice.

I believe it’s a reference to the ‘Chinese “Dipper” constellation’ meaning (the dipper sometimes referred to as being a ladle). As in words like 北斗 or 南斗.

Might be worth flagging someone like @JenK on this.

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I’m recommending one of these as an alternate vocab choice (or even 北斗の拳 :slightly_smiling_face:). But if I read ‘ladle’, I’m thinking something like お玉 or some utensil in the kitchen…unless this is just an old word that no one uses anymore.

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Looking at the items, it does seem odd that there’s not a single other usage of 斗 as vocabular. There’s plenty of constellation-related words that could be used.

Yeah, I can see that. In this case it would fall under the secondary meaning of:

: something resembling a ladle in form or function

It would be helpful if this was maybe made more clear if that was their intent with the meaning. It can definitely be confusing otherwise if someone is mistaking this to mean the utensil.

Hopefully someone from the staff can chine in and provide more clarity.

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Just to note, it didn’t pass the native test but it doesn’t mean they are correct either or it’s used in some other way (maybe just rare).

Of course the WK staff also includes natives so there must be some reasoning behind the choice. That’s why I flagged JenK to maybe talk to them. Also, maybe that person didn’t know that in English that the ‘dipper’ constellation is sometimes called a ladle? It’s definitely not common, but the two are synonyms.

But obviously, I’m not arguing that their primary meaning is necessarily the best choice, just I can see where it comes from considering the 斗 kanji’s ties to dipper constellations.

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Thanks for the tag @athomasm!
We’re adding this one to our list to discuss to check why it was added as the primary meaning and whether we need to make any changes. We may have used this based on the kanjipedia definition but we have to double check to be sure before doing anything with it :woman_technologist:t2:

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Did a Google image search for 斗, and got more than a few images of backhoe buckets, a handful of images of old Japanese building cornices, a couple of images of those wooden sake boxes, and one image of the scoops at the hand-washing station of a shrine or temple. Sooo…

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Yep there’s also this Chinese wikipedia article:

Makes a lot more sense now.

:smiley:

I think the vocab for this is 柄杓

Heh. Under the 形状 heading:

「柄杓」は当て字といわれている。漢字一字では「 」とも書く。

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So after a discussion, the content team decided to add ‘dipper’ and ‘volume’ as secondary meanings to the kanji. We’ve also made a note to change some of the vocab words associated with the kanji the next time we work on adding new words to WK.

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Nice. Thanks for the quick feedback on this as always.

Any chance of getting some Fist of the North Star references? :joy: But, yeah, would be nice to at least get a few words using the kanji in compounds. Though it seems very few words use anything but the と reading other than names and words like 擬斗.