放浪息子 (Wandering Son) miscellaneous discussion (March goal: Focus on volumes 1-6)


#223

All right, it’s question time as advertised.

Chapter 8:

Page 165

Last night I was trying to find some obscure meaning for ここもカギしめちゃうし but now I’m pretty sure it’s just literally like “plus we have to close up the place”.
I’m not that familiar with the use of し at the end of sentences so I’ve figured that one is giving a reason but what is the し in くるし in the next bubble?

Page 168

高槻さんも知っています
Is this supposed to be said, thought or is it like the notes from before?

Page 175

どっかのバカがからかってもからかわなくても痛くてしんどい
This had me stumped. Is 高槻 saying something like…it hurts whether an idiot teases you about it or not? And if so what sense does that make? Or is it just so the boy can hear it? I’m confuuus.

Page 184

I’m not sure what the 逆だったら is referring to. They are opposite? What.

By the way, @seanblue’s and @QuackingShoe’s discussion on this chapter helped a lot because I was sure at least some of that had to be a flashback and I hadn’t understood at all. Thanks.

And that last sentence * all of the tears *


#224

165
し is an inclusive ‘because’. Where から or ので or give the reason, し gives a reason. You can use it to list reasons, ending with an exclusive because, or just leave it at しs with the impression that there are unstated reasons.

175
That translation works for me.

184
“If it was the reverse” “if it was the other way around”

Can’t answer more than that (or 168 at all) because I won’t have my book in front of me for several more hours


#225
Page 168

Narration I think.

Page 175

I think your translation is fine. I also took it as just a thing to say where the boy can hear it.

Page 184

You have to look at the whole sentence: 二鳥くんと私、逆だったらよかったのに

“It would be nice if Nitori-kun (you) and I were reversed though…”

I took this as referring to their genders. It’s not clear to me if this is thought or said, but that’s my general understanding of it.


#226

This makes so much sense now. I really have to stop thinking of よかった as “I’m glad” because of course that translation only works in a specific case and it’s not the literal meaning at all :sweat_smile:.


#227

Well also, 〜たらよかった(のに) is the single most common way to say “If only x” “i wish it was x” etc. It’s like 会えてよかった = I’m glad I l met you もっと早く会えたらよかった = if only/I wish I could have met you sooner


#228

Yeah, I was going to say that よかったのに is kind of a set phrase at this point.

Now I’m trying to figure out if there’s a difference between any of these:

  • 〜ばよかった
  • 〜たらよかった
  • 〜ばよかったのに
  • 〜たらよかったのに

My search in my grammar dictionary was inconclusive… It grouped ばよかった and たらよかった together, but had a second entry for ばよかったのに and たらよかったのに. But it gave similar examples and explanations for both. It sounds like maybe adding のに makes it more hypothetical (“I wish this had happened”) rather than concrete (“This should have been done”)? But that’s just a guess.


#229

Oh, so we’re going to talk about nuance and fine grammatical distinctions? Well you see…
image


#230

Well if someone (like @Naphthalene) doesn’t pop in here with an explanation, I’ll post it in the short grammar questions thread.


#231

I don’t actually think the distinction between ば and たら is different than it ever is, and personally I just think のに is clearer (and whinier).


#232

It’s a shame my understanding of all the conditionals is so shaky. :sweat_smile:


#233

My understanding is “always use たら because it’s always okay unless you have to use なら” which is… funnily enough what the link I gave says at the bottom, even though I’d never read thet specific page before :rofl:


#234

Ok, couple of questions on the first two chapters.

p. 39

あいつらがいたって役に立たないわよどうせ
So, I believe she’s just saying that the boys aren’t very responsible/don’t do their duty after all. But I’m not sure what the いたって is exactly?

p. 41

私二鳥くんが心底いやがってるとは思ってないし
I’m not exactly sure here. Is she basically saying that Shuu doesn’t hate it? What’s the 心底 doing there?

Should be able to speed up in the next couple weeks during the beginner book club lull. And hopefully, the rest of my books will come soon as well. I can’t wait to gush over the covers! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:


#235

心底 2. completely (from the bottom of one’s heart); truly​
I don’t think he completely hates it.


#236

39
たって means like, “even if.” It’s constructed the same as past tense た. Even if they’re there, they won’t be any use.

41
心底 is the bottom of your heart, and Chiba says she doesn’t think Shuu really hates it


#237

:exploding_head:

I had no idea this grammar existed as a conjugation. I always looked at it by itself, but it makes so much more sense now.


#238

Ah, that makes more sense when you put it like that. I was having trouble making my English brain accept “bottom of one’s heart” in that context, I think.

Ooooh, that verb was いる. I was so confused as to what that was. And you just taught me new grammar! Huzzah! \o/


#239

Here’s more about it courtesy of my dictionary! It’s formed from た+とて subjected to GLOTTAL STOP NONSENSE like most modern Japanese!

〔過去・完了の助動詞「た」に助詞「とて」の付いた「たとて」の転。近世江戸語以降の語。撥音便の語の後では「だって」となる。くだけた話し言葉に用いる〕
①動詞・形容詞の連用形に付き、「たとえ…ても」の意を表す。
②活用語の終止形に付き、「…といっても」「…としても」の意で、強い逆接を表す。この場合、「ったって」の形になるのが一般である。


#240

I have a few questions about chapter 13.

Pages 104-105

Did those scenes with ユキさん and しーちゃん actually happen? I’m having a hard time telling if Shuuichi wrote what actually happened in the journal, or if it’s a made up thing.

Page 108

I think I got this one, but I want to double check.

ガラじゃないよね…

Does this mean “out of character”?

Page 111

Context is Chiba-san saying she’s not mad, but rather she feels lonely.

Then Sasa responds:
でも、あたしこうゆうの続いたためしないの
すぐ忘れちゃってさ
いっつもみんなに怒られて外されちゃうの

Chiba:
思い出したときに書いてくれたらいいわ

I’m not really sure what to make of this. Chiba is saying to write it when you remember, referring back to Sasa saying something about forgetting right away. But I’m not sure what’s being forgotten or why people are mad. :sweat_smile:

I’ll post one more question and some comments later.


#241

Yeah.
4. appropriate to; fitting of; suitable for​


#242

I figured out my last (unposted) question for chapter 13, so here’s a funny picture instead.

I just found it funny how serious Chiba sounded and that the author has to remind us who Sasa even was. :joy: