少女終末旅行: Chapter 5 Discussion

Wow this got really hard really fast :smile: But I think I figured it out…not quite sure though…I updated the vocab sheet, because I thought I was right…if not someone can delete/edit accordingly

These aren’t really spoilers so not going to hide this…

First on Page 84 and Page 85
Page 84 First Panel the left most bubble…
流れて is there … I believe this is correct on the vocab as 流れる (intransitive)

Page 85 Second Panel left most bubble…it looks the same but isn’t quite! (wasn’t in the vocab list - added it) 流されたら … I believe the correct verb is 流す (transitive)

It’s subtle and the meanings are basically the same, but it was confusing when trying to make sure I understood the conjugation on page 85

Might be a spoiler (maybe not) but I’ll try to be nice :slight_smile:

Page 85

I think 流されたら = passive (+tara) form of 流す (to be washed/swept away)
passive form 流される (be/get washed/swept away)…
drop the ru and to the tara form = 流されたら (if be/get washed/swept away).

Have I made this overly complicated (gotten ‘carried’ away…silly pun) or am I understanding this correctly?

1 Like

Yep, that’s basically correct.
Just one remark: 流す is “to wash away”.
(I think you made the mistake from thinking too much about writing the passive form next :wink: )


Now only if I could figure out the English grammar… (native speaker … hence can’t really ever explain the difference…just sort of know what sounds natural)

I think I know it when I hear it…until I read grammar girl and umm…I know 何もない! :roll_eyes:

I couldn’t think of a good example with this verb either…

I read the book [active] vs the book was read. [passive]
read must drive non natives insane!.. I think read = hito/bito/jin/nin! hehe

The book washed away. (I think that’s active…not that I think about it - maybe it’s passive? so confused…but heck these sorts of grammar things I learned 30 years ago…beats me what it’s supposed to be)…I’m much better at math. Can’t figure out how to write this in the passive form. :grin:.

Then I look at the manga and if this is the transitive verb I’m looking for an を to mark object…but it’s colloquial speech so I’m lost! Oh well…

For those of us grammar challenged, can someone make a simple sentence with 流す (heck why not both of them 流れる) active and passive (in English). I know active/passive is separate from the whole transitive intransitive thing. I remember reading it somewhere a while back on Tofugu.

Hoping this might be helpful to the more grammar challenged among us…also if you happen to know of a transitive/intransitive pair we read already that would make a good learning example, please share :wink:


The difference between active and passive voice is definitely harder to distinguish when the verb is intransitive. Here’s my understanding (my Japanese grammar is not very good, corrections welcome):

“The book washed away.” (active voice, intransitive verb)
“The book was washed away.” (passive, intransitive)
I feel like the Japanese version of one of these must be wrong. The definition of 流れる already sounds passive, so is passive conjugation even necessary?

“I washed the book away.” (active, transitive)
“The book was washed away by me.” (passive, transitive)
Second example is passive because the thing being acted upon by the verb is the subject of the sentence (instead of the object, as it would be in active voice).


This is absolutely perfect! and welcome … what a great first post! You’re a rock star :star::sparkles::tada::confetti_ball:!

Also…yeah this verb in particular is sort of weird where it already sounds passive…hence I struggled for a long time and couldn’t figure out how to make a proper sentence in English. (lousy native speaker I am)

This is similar to the same challenge I’m still working through in reading most things beyond the basic general sentence structure…learning how to go from a literal out of word order/broken English to natural reading and correct meaning in English. I know the more I practice the easier it will get. You’re answer really helps a lot!

I’ll transcribe these examples into my notes tomorrow…so when I get stuck again I can use these as base sentence structures for similar difficult trans/intrans pairs. :wink:

1 Like

Chapter 6 is here! I refused to make the new chapter thread until I was caught up.


I really this explanation!

I’m trying to understand how the particle とか became maybe. Might you be able to explain how you got to your reading?

Of course I went looking before asking…this is what I found on BP I found this:
Went through the example sentences and they don’t quite line up with the “maybe” usage that way.

Looked at Yellow Basic Grammer (Makino/Tsutsui) book and it had a similar explanation…

Then just popping it into google the translation (I have no idea) comes up:

This is an odd one …would really like to understand this a bit better :wink:


Well… sorry if I confused you here… I don’t have anything factual to base this on. I just translated it a bit liberally, I guess. That’s why I gave “maybe/sometimes” as my translation.
My thought process goes like this: if it is, among other things, and if it is not, among other things, then it maybe is (because if it is and also is not, then it might be the case that the speaker just doesn’t know), or it sometimes is (because if it is and is not, then this cannot take place at the same time, so sometimes it is, and sometimes it is not).

(I was secretly hoping that somebody would kick in and correct me, but nothing happened :wink: So let me find out more about it myself.)

Some interesting data points:

This seems to be something like a set expression, as it is even a Twitter hashtag: https://twitter.com/hashtag/あるとかないとか?src=hash (that does not help with the understanding, I just found it interesting)

Here the translation seems to hint a meaning “… or something”: https://hinative.com/ja/questions/152717

This is the most interesting one: https://ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/“とかない”
Sentence 2 gives the translation “whether or not”.
Also, it seems to indicate that only とかない is the fixed expression. So now I’m wondering whether in the final とか maybe actually と is the quotation particle and か is the question marker?

Same here :joy_cat:

As always, it looked quite easy at the onset, but then turned out to get more tricky the more I think about it…


You didn’t confuse me at all…honestly it was rather helpful…w/o your translation I would have been lost and asked the question anyway :slight_smile:

I’m with you in that I am ちょっと suspicious that is a set phrase…but didn’t find anything obvious when I looked around.

I’m always secretly hoping someone asked the questions before me. I’m still on chapter 5…I’m behind so if it hasn’t been asked yet…I’m probably going to have to ask haha!

The resources you found only make me more curious now! so many various ways of parsing it. Oh and since we don’t have enough variations…here’s an English translation of that bubble in the manga



maybe yes maybe no
or something
whether or not
among other things
for example
such as
and the google version (I have no idea)…I think this is the definition of irony haha

I’m going to ask around tomorrow to see if I can get a straight answer on this. I think maybe yes/maybe no and or something and supposedly are all in the same realm of translation…but I agree it would be really nice to actually understand what’s happening with this exactly, set phrase or not.


:see_no_evil: :see_no_evil: :see_no_evil:


Oh, are you calling for more variations? Here you go :wink:

This amazing website was just mentioned in the Absolute Beginner Bookclub, so I mainly want to share it with you all as well.


As a side product, it destructures the sentence in yet another way :wink: Namely that とかない is the negative of the verb とく. Of course, there are multiple verbs that are pronounced とく. None of them hit me as the ultimate answer to our puzzle. Or maybe this is just a parsing accident…


It’s just a prasing accident.

Going up the discussion, it’s indeed ある+とか+ない+とか

Positiveとかnegativeとか is way to avoid making a decision about “positive”. The “or something” from the English translation seems like a pretty good way to carry that meaning.

In French, we have a similar expression (p’tet bien qu’oui, p’tet bien qu’non).
Edit: I guess the English version would be “it may or may not be the case (that)” (that sounds too formal though)


Since we were all wondering and didn’t have anything definitive yesterday…sent a picture of the page along with the question to my sensei on skype last night…she answered this morning and said this is how she would translate it:

I would translate it like this " (They said) it might be or not might be still under the deep in the ground." So, basically there are two different/opposite rumors/hearsays about the matter, but nobody knows which one is true. I hope it helps. (-:

So it looks like you were right on with your first liberal translation… I have my call with her in a few hours. If I learn anything more that’s useful I’ll share.


Thanks for all the work on this! :slight_smile:

I’m curious about where the sense of “supposedly”/"(they said)" comes from. Does とか imply hearsay?

1 Like

Here ya go! I asked for a little bit more info…

She said it’s an idiom rather than a phrase so it gets used in a sentence.

Which is lines up perfectly with the English and French versions :slight_smile:


now for a lame question…

what character is in the bubble on the lower right of page 88 for the life of me it doesn’t look like Kanji I know and it doesn’t quite look like hiragana?


Is this kanji I don’t know or is this a hard to read font?

1 Like


I thought since そ was one stroke that couldn’t have been it…which is why I asked…

funniest one I’ve ever seen…guess it’s the only thing that makes sense…

1 Like

Handwriting and fonts designed to emulate handwriting are a whole new world
(Central bottom is そ)


to quote Radish8!!!

Oh well at least as I read through the next few bubbles I see kanji I know the meaning and reading so it makes me happy …just enough to keep pushing forward until I get totally lost again :crazy_face: