夜市: Week 8 Discussion

[Naphthalene]

Join the Intermediate Book Club here!

夜市 Home Thread

Week 8

Start Date: June 27th
Previous week: Week 7
Next week: Week 9

Reading:

End Page	End Percentage	End Phrase	Page Count
124	56%	[End of section 2]	16

Discussion Rules

• Please use spoiler tags for major events in the current chapter(s) and any content in future chapters.
• When asking for help, please mention the chapter and page number. Also mention what version of the book you are reading.
• Don’t be afraid of asking questions, even if they seem embarrassing at first. All of us are here to learn.
• To you lurkers out there: Join the conversation, it’s fun!

Participants

Mark your participation status by voting in this poll.

• I’m reading along
• I have finished this part
• I’m still reading the book but I haven’t reached this part yet
• I am no longer/not reading the book

[Naphthalene]

This week was pretty nice! I didn’t expect other humans (?) to show up in the story. It was pretty interesting to get details about the 古道. Also, I really like レン’s life goal. Trying to map a supernatural road sounds like an exciting life goal (maybe I’m influenced by the fact I can’t really travel right now due to covid…). And it was pretty lucky of the main characters to find this place, too. I feel that, once again, this will be more a 怪談 rather than a true horror story, but I like it this way. I also really wonder if カズキ would have been able to get on the road if he was alone. Based on last week’s part, I guess the main character is special (either from birth or from getting in contact with the 古道 previously, just like the 夜市 worked), but what are the odds that both of them are special? Also, apparently you need years of training to get on the road, so something’s fishy here…

Also, I wonder if names are written in カタカナ because the main character is simply too young to match those to kanji.

[maskedkoala]

I’m enjoying this story a lot, too. 恒川光太郎 really does a great job at building worlds. As it was with 余市夜市, the dialogue really brings life and history to the settings (especially the parallel world). He makes it feel like this is a road that really exists, like it extends beyond what’s written in the pages. I was perusing some of the Amazon recommendations in light of the nominations threads, and it seems like he’s a really prolific author. I guess you had already read another book of his in this club?

I really like the idea of this 古道. I thought it was a great little plot point that he was able to exit to 小金井公園 because it’s only open when the 桜 are blossoming. What a wildly complex labyrinth this must be, and quite the endeavor for レン.

Also, I’m assuming that one of these paths is the secret road. Google knows everything, right?

[Naphthalene]

@maskedkoala

余市

夜市

@maskedkoala

I guess you had already read another book of his in this club?

Yes we did! Although according to the current poll results in the club thread, we are only two survivors form that period and the other one isn’t reading this book That being said, both of us said it was our favorite so far.
And that’s partially why I’ve been hoping for this book to get picked for a long time
We’re not quite done, but I do see some pattern in the writing of the author. I like his style, but at the same time two books are probably going to be enough for now (as far as I am concerned). Of course, if some more of his work gets picked up in the future, I’ll definitely read along, but I won’t be proactive about it I guess.

@maskedkoala

Google knows everything, right?

I’m picturing a guy dressed like an 飛脚 with the Google logo on his ふんどし, carrying the multi-directional camera instead of a package at the end of his stick.

[maskedkoala]

Hahaha. I’m going to assume that that’s what レン is doing.

[NicoleRauch]

Now that is an amazing tattoo!

[eefara]

@Naphthalene

Although according to the current poll results in the club thread, we are only two survivors form that period and the other one isn’t reading this book

As expected, I got no reading done for 風の古道 on vacation last week, and work’s hitting me hard with stuff I missed and other coworkers out, so I gotta take on their work. Not sure if I’ll be able to keep up with how far behind I am already on the book. :\ I’ll see what I can do, though!

[jacobalbano]

This week’s section is pretty cool. The silent houses during the first trip had me quite anxious about what could be lurking inside so I’m a little distrustful of the new developments. When the shop master brought them water all I could think about was the old rule “don’t eat the food in fairyland”.

Maybe I missed it, but do we have a name for the protagonist/narrator? or even a definitive gender? I initially assumed girl due to the 私 usage, but the woman in the beginning referred to the MC as ぼく and I’m pretty sure I caught a dialogue line that used 俺 (which didn’t seem to come from カズキ).

[Belerith]

I don’t think we have a name - I quit like that aspect of this story telling actually. But yeah, the protag has used 俺 when talking to カズキ at around 52% -
カズキが何度目かになる台詞をいう。
「なあ、まだかよ」<probably カズキ
「そんなの、俺にもわかんねえよ。何年も前のことだぞ」
「大丈夫かよ」
「おまえがいきたいっていい始めたんだろ」<definitely protag

私 is gender neutral, though when they don’t have to be polite men don’t say it as often as women do. Since the pronoun you use changes depending on formality levels, but how you think of yourself doesn’t necessarily also change, it makes sense that internal and external pronouns won’t always align.

At least that’s how I explained this to myself when I first noticed it.

In talking to his male friend our protag seems to take on a bit of a rougher persona and use 俺 accordingly. (I don’t think he used it/will use it with adults, I’m not sure he used a pronoun so far?)

[Naphthalene]

@Belerith

At least that’s how I explained this to myself when I first noticed it.

I thought the exact same thing.

@jacobalbano

“don’t eat the food in fairyland”

Words to live by!
I’m more worried about the 妖怪 who noticed them watching, though. (Should spoiler that, but on phone right now)
Edit: or I can just stop being lazy.

[jacobalbano]

@Belerith

私 is gender neutral

For sure, but things get exaggerated in fiction so it struck me as kind of odd. In 氷菓 (the only other novel I’ve read), the MC uses 俺 at all times even during narration but something I actually considered after posting this was whether the “voice” of exposition might normally be more polite or neutral, and therefore 私 would be more appropriate. Probably just something I need to get more exposure to.

[Naphthalene]

@jacobalbano

and therefore 私 would be more appropriate.

Hm, I’ve read more than 80 novels in Japanese so far, and I’ve never come across that exactly. I’ve come across characters that use internally pronouns that do not match their biological gender (which applies to narration) and externally pronouns that are “acceptable”, but that’s a very specific scenario.
So, it’s obviously fine for the MC to use 私 internally and 俺 outwardly, but I wouldn’t say it’s common.

[denzo]

It feels like the events being narrated are a long time in the past. Could it be indicating that he’s older and more mellow now?

[Naphthalene]

Oh! I didn’t think of that! Sure, that’s possible. Or maybe he was assimilated by a hive mind and is a little bit different from what he was at the time.
(Throwing in some crazy theory, just in case I get it right again It would explain the gender neutral-ness)

[denzo]

Or “he” is now a “she/they”…

[eefara]

Alrighty, time for this week’s questions. As always, ありがとうがざいます to my helpful peeps.

Many questions

1. 50%: 家はみなこの道に背を向けていた。
   What is the みなこ here?

2. 50% (next page from last Q): 「たぶん、大昔からあって、家を建ててる時も、この道だけ残すように建てたんじゃないかな」
   I was wondering about the bolded part, the たん specifically.

   2a. 「あ、それありえる」だとすれば立ち入り禁止の場所で、大人に見つかってこっぴどく叱られるかもしれない。まあ、その時はその時だ。
   This construction has also popped up in a few places in the novella: その～はその～だ, or something similar. Maybe it’s just supposed to be read fairly literally? Here, something similar to, “Ah, to be young”, or whatnot? “It was that time, after all”, literally.

3. 51%: 「ワープだワープ」カズキが呟いた。」
   ワープ is presumably “warp”, so what’s the translation here of the bolded?

   3a. […]、私たちがいるこの道は見えないし、存在しないらしい、ということが車の走りっぷりを見ているとわかった。
   I don’t believe I’ve seen this っぷり ending before.

4. 51% (next page): 彼女たちは風の中を舞うように、悲鳴に似た尾を引く音を残して、私たちの前を通り過ぎていった。
   The end of the procession sounded like a scream? They had screaming tails?

   4a. 時間にして数秒のことで、駅のホームでの特快電車の通過を思わせた。
   時間にして; “the decided-on time”?

5. 51% (next page): カズキが何度目かになる台詞をいう。
   What is the かになる here?

6. 52% (a few pages later): こうしている間にも、刻一刻と日は暮れていく。心中穏やかではなかった。
   Which 心中 is this? I might guess the しんちゅう reading, but I wanted to double-check.

7. 54%: ほっときゃじきに閉じるだろう。
   I’m probably just parsing this wrong; what is きゃ doing here?

8. 57%: 彼らには彼らの旅路があり、どこから来てどこにいくのかは青年も知らなかった。
   Is this saying that even to 彼ら, the journey’s path isn’t known?

Phew. Thanks for reading this far down; it’s a lot of questions, but in the grand scheme of things I’m definitely picking things up. This is like the missing 5%-10% when I read, however you want to measure it. My apologies for any typos or whatnot!

I’m enjoying the story so far for sure; as others have mentioned, it’s got that 夜市 vibe to it. I’m wondering just how lethal this 古道 can become if it wants to…

[NicoleRauch]

Ok, let’s see how far I get.

Answer attempts

1. I bet you will weep when I tell you that this is 皆(みな) + この …
2. This is 建てた + んじゃない + かな, so something like “were built, don’t you think?”
   2a. I also read that quite literally as “It was that time, after all”
3. This is a very common thing in spoken Japanese, it is simply repeated for emphasis, like “it’s a warp, a warp!” or something.
   3a. According to this resource, it means “how somebody runs”
4. The brackets are slightly different 尾を引く to leave a lasting effect, so probably something like “a reverberating sound like a scream”

I’ll leave the rest to somebody else

[jacobalbano]

Beaten to the punch by @NicoleRauch on a few of these Gotta check context for the others so I’ll probably edit this comment in a minute.

@eefara

What is the みなこ here?

Not みなこ but みな + この

@eefara

その時はその時

Curious that this phrase isn’t on jisho because it’s in one of the dictionaries I have installed in yomichan. Essentially “we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it”. To me it reads pretty straightforwardly as the sum of its parts though; “the things (at that time) will be dealt with (at that time)”.

@eefara

ワープ is presumably “warp”, so what’s the translation here of the bolded?

He’s repeating the word for emphasis. “It’s a warp, it must be!”

@eefara

They had screaming tails?

( 悲鳴に似た) (尾を引く音)
Does it help to have the words broken up like this? 尾を引く means “to have a lasting effect”.

@eefara

時間にして; “the decided-on time”?

I’m inclined to say that this 時間にして数秒のことで is one whole unit that means “for a few seconds”. Not 100% on that one to be honest.

@eefara

What is the かになる here?

The か is because it’s an embedded question. 目 here is an ordinal counter, so it’s something like “Kazuki said, for the umpteeth time” (literally, “the I-don’t-know-how-many-th time”)

@eefara

Which 心中 is this? I might guess the しんちゅう reading

Indeed, it’s the “sincerely” meaning, not the “lover’s suicide” meaning That’s a new one for me

@eefara

ほっと きゃ

きゃ is a form of ければ, so here it’s ほっておけえれば. ておく gets contracted to とく pretty often (in fact maybe more often than the full form).

[eefara]

Ah, thank you both @NicoleRauch and @jacobalbano; I don’t know if it’s a good or bad thing most of these are just me not parsing it correctly. 尾を引く is definitely going into the new vocab pile…

[denzo]

@eefara

ほっと きゃ

Pretty sure this is the contraction of 放っとければ

@eefara

彼らには 彼らの旅路があり、どこから来てどこにいくのかは青年も知らなかった。

Everything after the comma is contrasted to what comes before

彼らには** 彼らの旅路があり - something like “To them, they had their own path”
どこから来てどこにいくのかは青年も知らなかった。 - "where they came from, and where they were going, even the young man didn’t know.

The あり is stem-form of ある (as in あります). Look out for verbs like that - it’s a bit like using the て-form, but separates what comes before and after more strongly.