地球星人 🌏 Book Club ・ Week ３

[Phryne]

I have really enjoyed reading about Obon traditions and looking up pictures (especially of the cucumber/aubergine animals and the odd batmobile)

As for Yuu, the same things stood out to me as @omk3 mentioned. I am really intrigued to see what his situation is like, but also dread to read more.

As for Kise, Natsuki and the mother… Again, much agreeing with @omk3. I think this week it has become even clearer that the mother actively favours Kise to the dentriment of Natsuki. The choice to return home may well have felt reasonable in the circumstances (though I also suspect the mother jumped at the opportunity, as she never seemed keen to be there in the first place), but the way she responded to Natsuki’s attempts to spend some more time with Yuu seemed overly harsh to me (in the translation it is rendered as “Oh do shut up.”). This matches the way she scolded Natsuki last week, when they were dishing up and handing out the food. And then of course there was the off-hand mention of Natsuki’s mother and sister habitually chucking out her stuff…

I too am wondering if Kise has actual health issues. Her response to adversity seems quite extreme, though extensive bullying and harmful parenting could’ve also caused that…

[dappe17]

@omk3

On a lighter note, do they seriously eat locusts ? I know they’re supposed to be really nutritious, but nope. Has anyone tried?

I’ve tried it because they told me that it was “shrimp” but honestly, it just tastes like soy sauce and sugar. It wasn’t bad. I wouldn’t voluntarily eat it again though. As for feeding the grasshoppers to spiders, I have a colleague who likes to feed random bugs to his jumping spiders at home because he likes having them around. I did find it weird because we’re pretty much careful about killing any insects during Obon because they could be any of our ancestors visiting.

[omk3]

@dappe17

I’ve tried it because they told me that it was “shrimp”

Honestly, shrimp don’t look very appetising either if you look at them with fresh eyes. It’s just that I’ve been accustomed to regard them as (yummy) food, and locusts not. I’d still very much hesitate to try them.

@dappe17

it just tastes like soy sauce and sugar

So they’re sweet and crunchy? Looking them up I saw they’re also served on ice cream.

@dappe17

they could be any of our ancestors visiting.

Good point!

[wiersm]

I can’t wait to read on next week to find out how this continues!

@omk3

I’m so disappointed that they actually left, I really wanted to be there for the whole Obon festival. I was really enjoying the atmosphere.

Agreed! And we were even promised fireflies…

@Phryne

I have really enjoyed reading about Obon traditions and looking up pictures (especially of the cucumber/aubergine animals and the odd batmobile )

Yes, I also had to look it up! That batmobile is really impressive, but even the minimalist ones look really nice actually. I’m almost tempted to make them myself

[dappe17]

@omk3

So they’re sweet and crunchy? Looking them up I saw they’re also served on ice cream.

That does not look appealing at all. And yes, what I’ve tried is slightly sweet and crunchy and tastes like a regular kind of 佃煮.

@omk3

Honestly, shrimp don’t look very appetising either if you look at them with fresh eyes.

Right. My brother refuses to eat shrimp, as he calls them the cockroaches of the sea.

@omk3

Good point!

Maybe looking too far into it but wasn’t cannibalism one of the trigger warnings listed?

[omk3]

@dappe17

Maybe looking too far into it but wasn’t cannibalism one of the trigger warnings listed?

Oh my, I had forgotten about that . Probably unrelated (foreshadowing?), but in any case you might want to spoiler that, not everyone has chosen to look at the trigger warnings.

[Phryne]

@omk3

not everyone has chosen to look at the trigger warnings

Like me

Please be careful about spoilers. I am careful about avoiding them, but I can only do that if others are careful about using spoiler tags. Better to use them too often than not often enough.

[wiersm]

@jhol

passage that you found particularly intriguing?

My favourite part this week was the part where Natsuki is in bed with nonhuman life pressing in on the other side of the window. Very evocative. I’ve never really been to places where the animal and insect noises are quite so overwhelming, but I can imagine it gets intense in summer on a wild mountain in Japan.

@jhol

favorite new vocab word

逆鱗に触れる

To touch the scales under a dragon’s chin = to infuriate? nice

Just the fact that there is a two-kanji word for ‘the upside-down scales underneath a dragon’s chin’ is already enough to make this the vocab of the week.

@jhol

For those reading かがみの孤城, what parallels can you draw?

Yes, between this book and かがみ Japanese middle school is presented as quite a hellish place to be (I even wrote that in my notes before I saw your question). I have a feeling, though, that Kokoro went through something even more sinister than Kise (as far as we know at this point). I do feel for Kise: you can’t escape the body that you are in, so it’s horrible to have your physical appearance be made fun of.

@jhol

Is there anything wrong with the way Natsuki’s family treats her?

As others have commented, Kise’s problems seem to cause the parents to focus mostly on her instead of Natsuki, but so far, I wouldn’t call it excessive yet. Also, in my experience second children often have to live with less attention from their parents so Natsuki’s situation doesn’t seem exceptional (yet).

@jhol

What do you think of Natsuki and Yuu’s marriage? What about their promises?

It was very striking that the promise to survive was added by Yuu…

This week wasn’t hard language-wise. Just one sentence I want to make sure I understand correctly:

野生の自分の細胞が疼いているような感じがした

This is in the part where Natsuki is in bed and I think this is saying something along the lines that it [sensing the nonhuman life of the night] is making her wild cells ache, which is a sentence I like, but I’m not sure I’m reading it correctly

@omk3

I seriously worry that we’re not going to see Yuu again .

Yes, that crossed my mind as well. Let’s hope that we’re wrong.

@omk3

But then I’m not sure how to understand 浮く

I also interpreted it as ‘to feel out of place’, like you said.

@Phryne

Please be careful about spoilers. I am careful about avoiding them, but I can only do that if others are careful about using spoiler tags. Better to use them too often than not often enough.

Indeed. @dappe17, please add spoiler tags to your remark about the trigger warning!

And I would actually suggest that we do not discuss the contents of the trigger warnings at all, with or without spoiler tags, because I always assume that the information hidden behind a spoiler tag is only a spoiler for the current week, but the trigger warnings might contain spoilers for later weeks!

[omk3]

@wiersm

I’ve never really been to places where the animal and insect noises are quite so overwhelming, but I can imagine it gets intense in summer on a wild mountain in Japan.

It was a very evocative description of a very familiar setting for me. Spend a summer night in the countryside in any warm place, and you’ll know that you don’t dare turn on a light for fear of being swarmed by all sorts of bugs. And when it’s quiet in the dead of night, it’s really surprising how much noise all these tiny creatures make, as if they’re taking over the moment humans retreat, exactly like Natsuki describes.

@wiersm

逆鱗に触れる

I had to go back and search for this because I didn’t remember coming across it. I mean, the translation of my dictionary was just a mundane “incur anger”, so I didn’t pay much attention to it. I can see the scales and the reverse, but where are you getting the dragon from?

野生の自分の細胞が疼いているような感じがした

This is more or less how I understood it too. She felt as if the wild cells within her were throbbing. Like the wild part in her was awakened?

@wiersm

And I would actually suggest that we do not discuss the contents of the trigger warnings at all, with or without spoiler tags, because I always assume that the information hidden behind a spoiler tag is only a spoiler for the current week, but the trigger warnings might contain spoilers for later weeks!

Good point. I think we can still have spoilers for future chapters if we feel we need to, just like we have spoilers for other books, but they need to be clearly labeled as such so that no one reads them accidentally thinking they refer to the current week only.

[maskedkoala]

@omk3

Good point. I think we can still have spoilers for future chapters if we feel we need to, just like we have spoilers for other books, but they need to be clearly labeled as such so that no one reads them accidentally thinking they refer to the current week only.

Yeah, I’ve checked out of these discussions because people were already discussing what was going on in the context of Murata’s other writings, which I felt spoiled some things for me.

[omk3]

I thought comparisons with other books have always been clearly labeled until now? I may be misremembering. In any case, you make a good point, it might be best to keep such comparisons for the end of the book. I would hate for people to not join the conversation for fear of spoilers.
(I haven’t read any of her other books myself, nor かがみの孤城 which also gets mentioned)

[dappe17]

@omk3

Probably unrelated (foreshadowing?), but in any case you might want to spoiler that, not everyone has chosen to look at the trigger warnings.

@Phryne

Like me

Please be careful about spoilers. I am careful about avoiding them, but I can only do that if others are careful about using spoiler tags.

@wiersm

Indeed. @dappe17, please add spoiler tags to your remark about the trigger warning!

My bad! It won’t happen again.

[wiersm]

@omk3

but where are you getting the dragon from?

三省堂国語 has this for 逆鱗:

〔文〕竜のあごの下にある、逆さに はえた うろこ（鱗）。〔人がさわると、竜がたいそうおこるという〕

Or this in the 明鏡:

語源竜の喉元には逆さに生えたうろこがあり、人がそれに触れれば必ず殺されるという中国の故事に基づく。

@omk3

I think we can still have spoilers for future chapters if we feel we need to, just like we have spoilers for other books, but they need to be clearly labeled as such so that no one reads them accidentally

Yes, of course, clearly labelling is fine too (as long as the label is outside the spoiler tag )

@maskedkoala

I’ve checked out of these discussions because people were already discussing what was going on in the context of Murata’s other writings, which I felt spoiled some things for me.

Yes, I can see what you are getting at. There has been a lot of hinting at “what might come” and you could also consider that to be spoilery (but I guess those kinds of comments are hard to avoid in a book club like this one).

[omk3]

@wiersm

三省堂国語 has this for 逆鱗:
[…]
Or this in the 明鏡:
[…]

I need to start using monolingual dictionaries asap, I’m clearly missing out on a lot of nuances.
That was amazing, thanks.

[Phryne]

@wiersm

There has been a lot of hinting at “what might come” and you could also consider that to be spoilery

If it’s a prediction that later turned out to be correct, made by someone who is reading this book for the first time, I guess that’s within the scope of normal discussion. I feel like that sort of speculation is something Murata is almost inviting us to do, because she does tend to leave bread crumbs for us to pick up and work with.

I agree that references to the plots of other books than this one need to be clearly marked as spoilers for that book.

[jhol]

@maskedkoala

Yeah, I’ve checked out of these discussions because people were already discussing what was going on in the context of Murata’s other writings, which I felt spoiled some things for me.

@omk3

I thought comparisons with other books have always been clearly labeled until now? I may be misremembering. In any case, you make a good point, it might be best to keep such comparisons for the end of the book. I would hate for people to not join the conversation for fear of spoilers.

I am strongly of the opinion that connections to the outside world and to other literature deepen appreciation and understanding of the reading, so I don’t want to discourage this sort of discussion (in fact I encourage it through the discussion questions).

I’ve posted some straightforward spoiler rules to avoid the problem. The discussion and responses here have been so good that it would be a shame for somebody to miss out for fear of spoilers. The rules will be in the home thread, the previous weeklys, and every weekly going forward.

[Kappa421]

Good thing I still have Penguin Highway to read that I want to finish before the end of the year, helped me not to read ahead this week.

The book definitely is giving me and scratching that certain itch simultanously. Really enjoying it so far. Language was also very approachable this week, finished faster than I expected. Btw, thanks for the name/relation sheet!

Don’t really have anything to add to the discussion that wasn’t covered by everyone else already.

[lutabanga]

@wiersm

三省堂国語 has this for 逆鱗:

〔文〕竜のあごの下にある、逆さに はえた うろこ（鱗）。〔人がさわると、竜がたいそうおこるという〕

Or this in the 明鏡:

語源竜の喉元には逆さに生えたうろこがあり、人がそれに触れれば必ず殺されるという中国の故事に基づく。

Are there online versions of these dictionaries, or are they are only available in physical form?

[wiersm]

On iOS you can get them in the ‘Dictionaries’ app from 物書堂, but you will have to pay for each dictionary. I don’t know if there is also an Android version. And I assume that you can also buy them in physical form. The app is pretty nice actually, because you can easily search for words, idioms and example sentences across multiple dictionaries in one go (if you bought them).

Watch out if you like dictionaries and have disposable income… I mean I’m not saying that I didn’t spend hundreds of euros on dictionaries in one app…

[omk3]

Do you read on the Bookwalker app? Can you use these dictionaries from within Bookwalker?

@wiersm

Watch out if you like dictionaries and have disposable income… I mean I’m not saying that I didn’t spend hundreds of euros on dictionaries in one app…

I’ve been looking at that app and the available dictionaries for ages, trying to resist (for now). I know that once I get one, I’ll want more. (As a kid I used to casually read random dictionary pages to pass the time, so you could say I like dictionaries.)