Everybody should feel free to post and ask questions–it’s what makes book clubs fun! But please do not post until you are familiar with Spoiler Courtesy!
Spoiler Courtesy
Please follow these rules to avoid inadvertent ネタバレ. If you’re unsure whether something should have a spoiler tag, err on the side of using one.
Any potential spoiler for the current week’s reading need only be covered by a spoiler tag. Predictions and conjecture made by somebody who has not read ahead still falls into this category.
Any potential spoilers for external sources need to be covered by a spoiler tag and include a label (outside of the spoiler tag) of what might be spoiled. These include but are not limited to: other book club picks, other books, games, movies, anime, etc. I recommend also tagging the severity of the spoiler (for example, I may still look at minor spoilers for something that I don’t intend to read soon).
Any information from later in the book than the current week’s reading (including trigger warnings that haven’t yet manifested) needs to be hidden by spoiler tags and labeled as coming from later sections.
Instructions for Spoiler Tags
Click the cog above the text box and use either the “Hide Details” or “Blur Spoiler” options. The text which says “This text will be hidden” should be replaced with what you are wishing to write. In the case of “Hide Details”, the section in the brackets that is labelled “Summary” can be replaced with whatever you like also (i.e, [details=”Chapter 1, Pg. 1”]).
Hide Details results in the dropdown box like below:
Example
This is an example of the “Hide Details” option.
The “Blur Spoiler” option will simply blur the text it surrounds.
This is an example of the “Blur Spoiler” option.
Posting Advice
When asking for help, please mention the page number, and check before posting that your question hasn’t already been asked. As the threads get longer, it becomes more convenient to use the Search function, which is located in the upper right corner of the forum. It is the magnifying glass which is near your profile picture! The best way to search is usually to type part of the sentence you are confused about, and select “in this topic”. This will show you all posts within the current thread which has that string of text.
Be sure to join the conversation! It’s fun, and it’s what keeps these book clubs lively! There’s no such thing as a stupid question! We are all learning here, and if the question has crossed your mind, there’s a very good chance it has crossed somebody else’s also! Asking and answering questions is a great learning opportunity for everyone involved, so never hesitate to do so!
Trigger Warnings
Summary of trigger warnings
Discussion of topics including:
Bullying
Suicide
Abortion
Proper Nouns
Will be added to throughout the book.
Name
Reading
Notes
波多野祥吾
はたの しょうご
Narrator of Part 1 - one of the 6 candidates
嶌衣織
しま いおり
One of the 6 candidates
九賀蒼太
くが そうた
One of the 6 candidates
袴田亮
はかまだ りょう
One of the 6 candidates
矢代つばさ
やしろ つばさ
One of the 6 candidates
森久保公彦
もりくぼ きみひこ
One of the 6 candidates
鴻上達章
こうがみ たつあき
Hiring Manager
相楽ハルキ
さがら はるき
Famous singer
Participation
Will you be reading along with us this week?
I’m reading along
I have finished this part
I’m still reading the book but I haven’t reached this part yet
I’m reading this book after the club has finished
I’m no longer reading the book
0voters
If you’ve already read this book but are still going to join the discussion, please select “I have finished this part.”
Don’t forget to set this thread to Watching in order to stay abreast of discussion!
I quite like the book so far. I’m a bit surprised how fast it’s going but I appreciate the simplicity. I thought it would turn into mind games a lot more, denials, but the book tells us right away “yes this person actually did this (and he is a bit of an asshole after all)”. The 犯人 was a kind of an obvious candidate but why not. Unless… there’s more going on like some people are suspecting. I wonder what part 2 is about.
「吉祥寺駅付近のタイ料理専門店にて」This was funny to me because I went to Japan last year and I actually had dinner at a Thai restaurant right next to 吉祥寺駅 (this one) I will choose to believe that it was the same restaurant.
Finished this section as well. 1 week left of part 1! Almost there
The thing that I like is how each person being interviewed in the future immediately just goes “yeah it was all true, everything I did then was just a kind of front put up for show in order to get the job”. Plus they show that none of them have changed whatsoever in the following years
I’m almost certain there’s something else going on, but I’ve temporarily reserved judgment on what that could be. I think maybe there will be one or two surprises in the rest of part 1 (pure speculation), but I’m reckoning in Part 2 it might become more deep. In the meantime, I’m going to enjoy the back and forth, and am looking forward to seeing how 森久保 tries, and presumably fails, to show that it wasn’t him.
I will say: my theory still is that 嶌 is involved quite deeply in the events in some way. Even if she doesn’t get the job or isn’t the criminal directly now that it seems on the surface we know who both of those are, there’s something going on there, I just don’t know what it is yet. So many mysteries.
I really wonder what’s going to happen in Part 2 now.
I have a new theory : Since one of the book’s goal is exposing job recruitment culture and its abuses, what of the « final » culprit is someone from the company ? 森久保 could have been set up to plant the envelope, as some form of morality test. On the whole, the whole job interview process is beyond weird.
Though I also still kind of think that there’s a 波多野 and 嶌 team at work there.
While I understand that it would make the recruitment process a lot more complicated, and the book too, why aren’t they voting for themselves ? Not one of them, not once ? If they don’t believe, at any point, that they’re the best candidate for the job, what are they even doing here ?
First of all kuddos to Oerli (not tagging them in case they haven’t read this week yet) that called it in week 1 that 矢代 was a hostess
I think one thing that is very entertaining in this book so far, is that they make us want the book to go in a certain direction and then make us believe that it might not go there, so then it’s super satisfying when it does go there. For example when they decide that of course they shouldn’t open any more envelops from now on, I was almost pulling my hair, DON’T LISTEN TO HIM, I WANT TO KNOW, OPEN THEM, of course knowing that it would happen eventually anyway (or else I would have raged quit the book).
I’m also surprised that 袴田, the bully from the first envelop opened, wasn’t screaming “hey if my dirty secret was uncovered then yours will be too!!”. It obviously makes a big difference in the votes. Also made me think that their vote system is super flawed. If 九賀’s envelop had been opened last, he would be maybe leading the votes by that time by 20 points and not getting 5 more wouldn’t make a difference?
I’ve been taking down notes on who was in which envelop, so according to my notes, we still need to open 嶌’s envelop that contains 森久保’s secret, and then by elimination 波多野’s secret is 矢代’s envelope. I don’t know if we will follow normal procedure and open them or now we will be busy accusing 森久保 now.
It’s also a funny situation. Imagine someone looking at you and saying “I’m going to reveal your dirty secret in front of everyone”. I wonder if your thoughts are “Oh no! I know exactly what you are talking about!”, or “I have never done anything wrong” or “well… which one?” haha
Also at the first interview the manager mentioned that they had watched several times the recording of the 3 of the 4 cameras that were left recording. I’m relieved that we now know why one of the camera had stopped recording. I had thought that it would be something more dramatic, like a camera shot down by a weapon or something.
So yeah, hopefully a lot more of surprises to come! I’m definitely keeping my eyes on 嶌 still. I don’t think 波多野 has anything to do with it though, he seems genuinely surprised at everything that’s happening.
And lastly can we just celebrate that we have only 6 (maybe 7) people to remember about, and not 20+ like in some other books
Yes that’s what I mean, I’m happy that we have the explanation, as it was mentioned in the first interview that one camera had stopped recording but they hadn’t said why.
I don’t remember exactly when it was, but there was one point in I think last week’s chapter where 波多野 was making it sound like they couldn’t vote for themselves in the rules. I’ll have to go back and double check later when I have access to the book again though
Hehe, thank you! I was actually quite pleased myself when it was confirmed.
I do wonder though why they basically only open 1 envelope per 30 min? If it were me, I’d open them all at the same time, have everything out in the open and have a fairer time at the votes then. I mean, they did say it’s fair to open them all, but since they vote every 30 min,it’s not fair to have some open in the beginning and some only at the end as it does greatly affect votes. And honestly, opening and reading them all shouldn’t take that long.
Also, is it just me, but I don’t find their crimes/secrets to be equally grave. Bullying someone into committing suicide and working as a hostess are not even on the same level I find.
Same. I still think the bullying is the worse and I’m not super shocked by the abortion either. But maybe the point is not to show that they are criminal but more that their moral is not just as shiny as they’ve been pretending while trying to get the job.
Which anyway doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do a good job at their job. Food for thought I suppose, it’s like those famous directors (not naming any names but there are several) that have had dubious or illegal relationship with younger girls not always consenting, what does that say about them? Should we still watch their movies? Hm…
I agree too. Who cares if 矢代 works as a hostess ? She needs money, that’s all. And 九賀’s case, while harder to defend, is difficult to reclassify as crime. 袴田 is more complicated, of course. Though a possible defense would be that he probably wasn’t alone in bullying the other student, though that is hardly an excuse. I guess, indeed, that their crime, for all of them, is hypocrisy. It will be interesting to see how 森久保 defends himself
Idk, I sort of had the opposite reaction. Maybe it’s because this book is too hard for me, but during that phase I just kept thinking "oh come ooooon, we all know you’re going to open them anyway, don’t make me read through walls of text first.
Same. I agree with everyone who pointed out that the pacing seems somewhat artificially drawn out for dramatic purposes. For example, 袴田 sort of eventually did that, it only took him one more turn than I expected, to keep the pacing to one reveal per chapter/round of voting.
Yeah, I think that’s it. Also, the reason why the accused people lose votes is often not their dirty secrets in and of themselves, but the way they react to it and the way it shatters the carefully crafted persona’s they’ve constructed around themselves for the job hunt. I feel like those are the actual lies the title refers to. 九賀 and 袴田 had the farthest to fall, because they’d set themselves up as leader/manager types that the others looked up to, so their public image was completely destroyed when they reacted badly to their envelopes. In both cases, it would probably have been pretty easy to recover if they had reacted in a more competent way. Instead, 袴田 exposed his public image as the “people person” in their group as a lie when he admitted that he feels bullying someone to death is totally a-ok. And 九賀 loses his image as the quick-witted leader when he loses his cool and can’t think of anything to say at all. I think 矢代 actually reacted quite well to her envelope, but she had nothing to lose because no-one voted for her from the start.
Also, it seems to be something of a recurrent theme to show in the interviews how the corporate world encourages lying and makes it feel entirely natural. There’s 袴田’s tale of how he wildly exaggerated his commitment to voluntary work, 九賀’s about how he got so used to coming up with excuses why he can’t drink right now that one just slips out even though he doesn’t even need an exuse, and 矢代 who half-remembers reflexively lying when someone accused her of something but doesn’t even remember when and about what.
who suggested that vote schedule ? Who is always saying « no, don’t’ open them at all ! » ? And who, from what we know, finally gets the job ? Hmm… I wrote in another comment that for me their crime is hypocrisy, for all of them, and I can see where 波多野 fits in that pattern !
If you have read chapter 4 already: Not exactly! Should have been 嶌’s envelop after 森久保’s since in 森久保’s it said ※なお、森久保公彦の写真は嶌衣織の封筒の中に入っている, but 袴田 opened his envelop first, revealing 矢代’s secret.
From the first interview (鴻上さん), I don’t have the page, but at 15% in my version:
──映像って？ あぁ、ディスカッションの映像ですか。おそらく人事が保管していると思いますよ。社外秘だとは思いますが、あなたが見る分にはたぶん制限もないでしょう。言えばすぐに出してくれると思います。三時間弱ですかね、三台のカメラで撮影した映像がきっちり残ってますよ。もっとも、途中から二台分の映像に切り替わっていますけどね。
(also I remembered wrong, I thought 4 working cameras and only 3 left but it was originally 3 and then 2 left only)
I’m still midway through chapter 3, but I wanted to write down my thoughts on who the culprit may be while it’s on my mind:
Theory
Someone brought up that 波多野 could still be the culprit if he had an accomplice, and I’m starting to think this could be the case.
He was the one who set up the voting every 30 min system, so he could have also gotten the trail of evidence to lead in a way that he would be last, knowing the leader くが would open his first, and therefore the votes would be going his way. It’s not a very fair system when info is trickling in. Also, 袴田 mentioned the culprit used a coin locker, just like 波多野 said he was renting. And tjey keep teasing that he’s rich so he could’ve paid people off, including an accomplice that he’d pin as the culprit in the end.
This book is about 6 lying students, but so far 波多野‘s whole thing is that “he’s just a good, guy.” He may be an unreliable narrator, and while they keep saying “we have to make sure this culprit doesn’t get the offer” that may have been what happened.
(
