レンタルおにいちゃん - Week 4 Discussion (Absolute Beginners Book Club)

That was a loooong jump haha but I sure got your point, I’ll research a bit about that. Thanks!

However, I think the correct page is in fact Page 37, which corresponds to Page 39 on the BookWalker reader.

Lol, you’re right. I forgot to subtract 2 from the page count. This should be an option in the BookWalker app to do automatically!

I always assume that I’m missing something.

Yeah, it’s a little tricky, because sometimes you are missing something. It’s pretty common for manga to feature sentences that are spread out in pieces across a few panes (「結婚しても恋して」、a previous book club book, does this a lot), but other times the sentence simply is left incomplete. Being aware of the possibility helps, though.

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Oh that’s clever! I’m also using Bookwalker, so I just keep looking for a page with the number written at the bottom and count either forward or backwards from there. The next page has “38” at the bottom which tells me the previous page was 37 lol.

I reckon you may be on the right track here, as I interpreted the て to form a “continuative” situation. Kind of like 助けてくれてありがとうwould mean “Thank you for helping me”, the ね at the end of Saechan’s sentence made me read it along the lines of, "She buys me anything I want, you know?”
Of course I could be totally wrong and, if so, I wait for someone to come along and correct my thinking. :smiley:

p.s. Does your book have なーat the end of the sentence? Mine has ねー and I’m wondering if it’s a difference between the printed and Bookwalker versions.

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Sorry, my bad, it is a ね indeed. Fixed!

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Hi guys! Just to let you know I´m on vacation this week and part of the next and I´ll be absent from the thread discussion until I return home. I´ve been trying to organise my schedule and leave some time for Japanese but it turns out to be impossible, since I´m pretty much all day outside the house. However, I´ll catch up with you guys as soon as I can!! Good luck with the reading! :blush: :blush: :muscle:t2: :muscle:t2:

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Looking busy for me tomorrow so putting this up tonight ready for starting week 5 reading tomorrow. Click here.

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Page 37

This particular part of the grammar was confusing me a lot so I was trying to read around a bit. I know we’ve mentioned the explanatory のだ quite a bit already but I wasn’t clear on how it changes when it follows different types of word.

I’ve found it presented like this which really helped me:
verb + のだ
i-adjective + のだ
noun + なのだ
na-adjective (root) + なのだ

The な placed before the の particle when directly following a noun or na-adjective differentiates the explanatory の from the possessive の (which is only used with nouns or na-adjectives). That makes a lot of sense to me.

(うそ) is a noun so it needs なのだ as the explanatory ending.

Have I got all that right?

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That is correct.

If you want to take it one step further...

What comes before の may be thought of as a clause rather than a single word. (After all, why turn a noun into a noun?) Sentences ending in a noun or a na-adjective have だ placed after them. (Verbs and i-adjectives do not have だ after them.)

When you put a clause before の to treat the clause as a noun, the sentence-ending だ becomes な. This な is a form of the copula だ. Since i-adjectives and verbs do not use だ, there is no な form of だ placed after them when turning a clause into a noun:

Example of だ which becomes な:

Japanese English
友達が大切 Friends are important.
大切友達 important friend
大切友達だ He is important friend.
  • 友達 = ともだち = friend
  • 大切 = たいせつ = important

Since verbs and i-adjectives don’t need だ,

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Since I may also possibly be away a bit tomorrow, here’s week 4’s Pivix vs Commercial Release Comparison.

This is an interesting one to compare because the original Pixiv pages look more like a detailed storyboard. Also, school uniforms were introduced in the commercial release, and that’s very apparent when comparing the original and commercial versions.

Page 37

37apivix1

No dialogue changes here, but you can see that originally school uniforms weren’t in use. Everyone has casual clothes on. For the commercial release, it was decided, for whatever reason, that the characters would wear school uniforms. This is also seen with the school uniform hat added in onto of Sae-chan’s backpack.

37bpivix2 37bcommercial2

Here, 事 lost its kanji, becoming こと, as well as 訳 becoming わけ. Otherwise, no dialogue changes.

Page 38

38apivix1 38acommercial1

No dialogue change. Just showing the outfit change again.

38bpivix2 38bcommercial2

Still no dialogue chance. Just showing the outfit change from a different angle. Kanami’s hair no longer rests on top of her backpack.

Page 39

Once more, just showing off the original outfit designs. The original outfit designs really give you a sense of personality in each individual character’s choice of outfit a look into what clothes their parents buy for them.

Page 40

40pivix1 40commercial1

There’s a text change! なに leveled up and evolved into 何.

Page 41

Just a bit more before and after on the outfit change.

Page 42

42apivix1 42acommercial1

The particle に was added (「参観来て」 => 「参観に来て」).

So, for everyone out there struggling with dropped particles, ya’ got one back.

42bpivix2

Speaking of dropping, a line of internal monologue was removed. Kanami originally thought, upon looking at her parents’ photo:

「どうして 叶実のパパとママは死んじゃったんだろう…」

I feel like the scene is better off without this line, so I agree with its removal.

Also, big change in height difference between siblings in the photo.

You can see in this scene the phone that was added into the commercial release of volume 1.

42cpivix3 42ccommercial3

Consistent with earlier changes, Kanami used to her dark-haired big brother as 「レンタルのおにいちゃん」, but this was changed to simply 「おにいちゃん」. There’s a ・・ on there to remind the reader that there is a distinction in the writing used between her addressing each big brother.

Page 43

43pivix1 43commercial1

Sae-change’s dialogue had 「の家族」 added.

Page 45

Big brother’s dialogue changed:

Before 「いつも叶実が お世話になってます」
After 「いつも叶実と 仲良くしてくれて ありがとう」

「お世話(せわ)」 means “help” or “assistance”, and the expression 「お世話になってます」 has a meaning like “I’m indebted to you” or “I’m grateful (for your help)”. He’s effectively saying, “You’re always helping out Kanami,” I believe with an implied thanks. I like the change for the commercial release (“Thank you for always being friendly with Kanami.”)

One final showing of the change in outfits.

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Thank you for all this. I feel like this is an area where the early stages of grammar texts tend to just give you the rules but sort of gloss over the reasons why it’s done.

Page 39:

It’s continuous present tense so is it used because the situation Sae-chan describes is a continuing one? i.e. her mom buys her what she wants and will continue to do so.

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I agree, which is why I like to mention it when I can, especially for Absolute Beginner Book Club level.

One of the things that caused me to “give up” on learning Japanese grammar in the past was trying to memorize all these “rules” that “just are”, without any logical reason for them explained. (Maybe I just had bad resources back then?) I’ve had a bad memory all my life, but one thing that always makes a grammar rule easy for me to remember is having a logical reason for it.

Not everyone is going to understand all the grammar they’re encountering for the first time. But hopefully this common stuff will be asked about and re-examined over and over at least a few times by the end of the volume. Like a book club grammar SRS =D

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Page 39

Now that I think about it some more, it may not be continuative form but actually the てform used when listing verbs. For example:

昨日本を読んで、パンを食べて、勉強をした。
Yesterday I read a book, ate some bread, and studied.

So maybe Saechan using て at the end of her sentence was explaining her mom is so nice that she buys Sae whatever she wants and stuff (where “and stuff” means that’s not the only nice thing she does for Sae)

Again, I’m no expert - this is all my own musing and trying to make sense of it so take it with a grain of salt. :slight_smile:

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Looking again I’m reckon you were right the first time. I was thinking of present continuous tense and perhaps the いる being dropped in casual speak. But I’m not sure that’s the case.

て-form at the end of a sentence usually represents a request or command, often followed by ください or some other ending which could possibly be dropped in casual speech. In this context it doesn’t seem to be that because Sae-chan is referring to her mother who isn’t there.

I have seen someone describe using the て-form as a continuation marker to indicate their current story is carrying on so they will connect more phrases, but they are so excited that they drop a ねー into it to get an affirmation before they’ve finished. Could be that?

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Yeap, that’s kind of what I was trying to say. I think the て here is to indicate there are more things she could list off but she doesn’t feel the need to explicitly state them - the て implies that her mom does so many other nice things than just buy stuff for her.

Sorry for my inability to properly describe grammar points in English. You’d think I’d be good at it, being my first language and all, but I struggle to really articulate myself! lol

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No not at all. Your explanations are fine. I think some of my responses in this thread are sort of me ‘thinking out loud’ in a way but it helps to get the finer grammar points straight in my head. It’s all useful stuff and I feel like I’ve learned a lot here already.

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I just realized, I didn’t include the original title page for chapter two’s Pixiv release when posting the comparison. Here it is:

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Now that I´ve reached week 8, I´ll post just a couple of questions I had regarding past weeks (I wanted to cope up with the bookclub´s rhythm first) just in case anyone has the time to shed some light on them. Sorry for the delays and thanks everyone!! This one is for week 4

Page 37

Why is the のに in Sae-chan´s central panel at the end of the sentence?

I understand the whole sentence means:

After all, she doesn´t have any family willing to come to the parent´s day

のに would have the meaning of “in order to”, but I was expecting it to be after 来てくれる, not at the very end. Anyone can shed some grammar light? :blush: :pray:

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I tossed this one around in my mind a bit today.

A primary usage of のに is to make a statement, then to make a contrary statement. 「Statement1のにStatement2」 This is often translated as “Even though Statement1, Statement2” or “Statement2, even though Statement1.” To make it easier to understand, I like to use “and yet” to keep the same order: “Statement1, and yet Statement2.”

Sometimes, someone will say 「Statement2」, then follow up with 「Statement1のに」, but I don’t think that’s the case where, as Sae-chan’s two statements are not contradictory.

It’s possible she’s saying 「Statement1のに」 and leaving the 「Statement2」 portion unspoken. In that case, the dialogue could run as (for example):

“It’s not like she can have anything to write about, right? After all, she doesn’t have anyone in her family coming to class, and yet [she still has to give a presentation].”

I could be wrong though. I’ve checked a few resources on のに, and couldn’t find anything that really made me confident in any understanding.

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Just like some other sentence connectors, like から and ので, you can sometimes omit the second sentence if you feel it’s evident from context and saying it explicitly would feel too verbose.

From Wasabi:

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Many thanks, @ChristopherFritz and @2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz for your insight!! :blush: :pray:It has helped me a lot. I wouldn´t have been able to figure out the question of the omitted statement myself. Cheers!

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