How´s everyone doing this week? I´m almost done and so far so good! However, I´m having a bit of a problem with this sentence:
今の叶実にできることから始めて少しずつゆっくりでも進めたらいいんだ
The structure just simply doesn´t click completely for now, in part because I can´t sort out properly that始めて. Is it acting more as an adverb or as the て form of 始める? And because of these doubts, the から also doesn´t stick as it should. Since I had in mind that から…始めて was kind of like a structure with the meaning of: “It was the first…since…,”, I tried translating it as such, but it just sounds weird to me. Then I thought maybe it could be in fact the て form of 始める, but should it be like this, can a conditional link two sentences in which the link of the two is a て form? And what would happen then with the から? As you can see, I´m quite lost.
My understanding is that it’s simply acting as the て form of 始める. In this case, it’s using the meaning of “to start; to begin”. Starting from (から) the clause we have at the beginning ( the things Kanami can do at the moment )
I can see how that construction can mean “first (time) since”, considering 始めて can mean “first time”. I feel that scenario is more commonly written as 初めて instead, but I could be wrong.
I think the clue that this is just a normal て-form is that we need some connection with the next part of the sentence (少しずつ…), which the て-form provides. And as you mention, I would be strange in the current sentence if 始めて meant “first time”.
Many thanks @2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz for your help! And thus this 始めて is not affected by the 進めたら, am I right? And by the way, just as an additional grammar question, is it ok then to translate here the 始めて as a gerund? That´s why I also asked about the conditional (which in fact I think it could be more likely the construction たらいい of personal advice [“I should…”]), because I once read the て form should take the tense of the last verb (maybe I´m wrong and that´s only in sequential events)
I am not completely sure what you mean by 進めたら affecting 始めて, but if I understand what you are saying, yes, when using て-form to connect sentences, the last sentences dictates the tense of the verbs that are in て-form.
So yes, here the たらいい is being used as personal advice, and it affects the whole chain of sentences “It’s okay if I start from what I can do and I go forward little by little”. So here “if” is represented by たら and “start” and “and” would come from 始めて.
My english grammar is rusty as hell, but if I understand correctly, the gerund of a verb is the form where the verb works as a noun? I don’t see any issues with translating 始めて as a gerund, and it will probably sound more natural ( "It’s okay if starting from what I can do … " ). Just keep in mind that the fact that something translates well to an English grammar structure doesn’t mean the Japanese grammar is following the same grammatical rules (in the Japanese sentence, 始めて is not working as a noun).
How´s this week´s reading going?? For me it´s been very interesting both in terms of grammar and narrative! A question for now:
Page 47
心にちょっとだけ余裕ができて初めてわかった
この時間はおにいちゃんの優しさだってわかってるけど
At first I thought that what she for the first time had understood was the 心にちょっとだけ余裕ができて, but then I noticed that できて, which should be connecting with the next clause, the 初めてわかった (as @ChristopherFritz once explained, with the sense of “doing verb and…”). So in fact what she understood is the next sentence (この時間はおにいちゃんの優しさだってわかってるけど), even though the verb explicitly appears again in another form, わかってる??
I remember a similar situation in Volume 1 (I can´t recall the exact place, but I can search for it if helps) where the actual object of a verb of thought-emotion wasn´t what it preceded, but what followed (maybe for narrative-stylistic purposes), but once again I thought I wanted to check with you guys, just in case.
Narrative judgement
I´m really enjoying Kanami´s emotional development in this volume 3, I think her feelings are getting more and more complex. Take for instance what happened in the last chapter, where she actually questioned the meaning of her time with Makoto (it couldn´t replace her memories with her brother). However, now, after having learned not to force things and let her heart breathe a bit, she happens to recognize that it´s that “non-hurry” and “patience” what really defines Makoto´s kindness. And even though she thinks it´s totally gratituous and there´s maybe some “non-reality” to it, she is 嬉しい.
Hi friends! I was just able to finish Week 2 now and I have some questions if you don’t mind me being very late – and I’m assuming I’ll be late for the rest of the schedule but I really wish to complete this volume.
Page 18
急にキャンセルになってもうてさ
I couldn’t figure out what’s the うて in this sentence. I’m assuming it is the verb 打つ on the imperative form with the meaning to do; to carry out, but only after much effort trying to find a suitable meaning for the phrase, which in the end I came up with: I will even cancel [the plans] suddenly.
But… that doesn’t feel quite right. Even if it is, is there a nuance that I’m missing here on the usage of the 打つ verb in this context?
Page 26
オカンはな顔見たらわかるんよ
Why is that な looking so misplaced to me? Am I parsing this sentence the wrong way? (Life is hard when KNP is out of service – I’ve been spoiled). I couldn’t reach a reasonable translation for this one.
It’s not rare for book clubs to get new questions even years after a book club has finished, I doubt anybody minds
This is a tough one. I couldn’t find anything that I found completely satisfactory for this, but closest thing I have is that in Kansai-ben もうて seems to be used as an abbreviation of もらって.
There’s an example here, in the section that says “Extra 1: Polite permission”.
So, my interpretation is that キャンセルになってもうて means “suddenly received cancelation”, as in, the relatives cancelled their plans and are not coming. Since they cancelled after the food was prepared and there is a lot, that’s why he’s inviting Makoto and Kanami instead.
I am not completely satisfied with this interpretation but is the best I could find…
In Kansai-ben, な is used instead of ね as a sentence-ending particle. I believe that in this case, what we have is:
オカンは ね、 顔見たらわかるんよ
Here ね is being used as a filler of sorts. “You see, when I (mom) see your face…”. This usage of ね is pretty common in informal conversations.
That’s great to hear, thanks! This book club is the main reason I’m able to keep motivated to read a little bit whenever I have the time, so knowing that I can keep my pace and still be able to participate in discussions here means a lot.
Now the following pages 急に make a lot more sense!
Ah, I see. I guess I’m completely out of the loop regarding the Kansai-ben dialect since I read through Volume 2 in English
Regarding this もうて, I found another Kansai grammar point which may be of help here and could give a different nuance. It seems that, according to Vてしもた／Vても(う)た | Kansaibenkyou.net , this もうて should be the て form of the standard Japanese Vてしまった , giving a sense of repentance and/ or regret. What I got was:
“Unfortunately, it has been cancelled”
I don´t know if this helps, but if it does I´d be very 嬉しい
Consider in English, one might say, “Because I was able to such and such, I understood for the first time. I understand why this and that.” Here, the “understood” and “understand” refer to the same thing.
It might sound a bit odd (in English) to have these two sentences one right after another, but keep in mind that the first sentence reflects Kanami’s thoughts at the time, and the second reflects her narration.
For these lines, I look at it as two distinct sentences, where the first simply doesn’t state what is understood. It could be because the reader should know from context, or it could be because the information will be revealed to the reader later. But on its own, the sentence is complete as it is. It’s possible that reveal will come in the very next sentence, but it’s also possible something unrelated will come next. (In this case, the next sentence does give that clarification of what she’s talking about.)
I always like a series where you can tell characters are growing, that their way of seeing the world is developing. They’re not exactly the same person they were several chapters ago. And when you have this happen with some characters, it leaves room to ponder if/when other characters will get similar growth.
Will Makoto ever hone his maternal instincts?
Will Akane-chan outgrow her twintails hairstyle?
Will Ron overcome his inability to fetch a Frisbee from up a tree?
There’s a 96.8% chance I lost track of what day of the week it was. I thought I had this thread set up to notify me weekly, but apparently not… Luckily, I still have 15 minutes left to get this posted on the proper day in my time zone.
And the grammar, which is as beautiful in this part as the artwork In fact, for me these pages were the toughest in terms of actual grammar structures, but it´s so satisfying to see one actually somehow managing to make it through. 皆さん, 頑張ってね! And now for a question
Page 63
それを考えてると, 叶実自身もすごく楽しかった!
I´m having kind of like a tense conflict, because I´d had expected a 考えてたと instead of the actual 考えてると, since the adjective is in the past, as in:
When I was thinking that, I too really enjoyed myself!
However, now I´m thinking that that てる maybe is precisely there to emphasize that the action of thinking is still going on, as in: “Every time I think this I enjoy myself”. However, the translation I get sounds very weird to me:
“When I have been thinking that, I enjoyed myself” (?)
Anyways, any feedback I would greatly appreciate!!
Here’s my take on it. Note that this is effective just speculation on my part.
The prior sentence is about how Kanami wanted to make Makoto enjoy himself, which is the それ she thinks about in the next sentence: “When I think about that, I also totally enjoyed myself!”
However, a new question has struck me while reading your translation. Is it actually possible to combine a present - present continuous - resulting state in the condition and a past tense in the result, even in English? I mean, if I say:
“When I eat potatoes, I felt full of energy” (My mind asks for an “ate” - “was eating” in the condition or a “feel” in the result)
Maybe my problem here is to try to translate the Japanese てる into something tangible, but then I thought could it be a question of how Japanese past adjectives work? As in:
来てよかった (“I´m glad I came”), where that “glad” actually has somehow a present nuance, am I wrong?
I can manage to get a translation in Spanish (my native language) which kind of does right both to the progressive てる and the past 楽しかった (I´ll leave it shaded just in case anybody knows the language and can contrast) (“Cuando he estado pensando esto, yo misma me he divertido muchísimo”).
Just grammar speculation here too on my part, most probably lack of understanding, but something still doesn´t click for me with the tenses here
I think this works easily when it comes to 考えてる (thinking). You can think about your past state, or a past action. “Now that I think about it, I ate too much dinner. I don’t have room for dessert!” “Thinking about my trip to Japan, visiting Akihabara made me happy.” (These are just sample sentence. I don’t eat desserts, and I’ve never been to Japan.)
I´m almost done and so far so good! However, I´m having a bit of a problem with this sentence:
And thus this 始めて is not affected by the 進めたら, am I right? And by the way, just as an additional grammar question, is it ok then to translate here the 始めて as a gerund? That´s why I also asked about the conditional (which in fact I think it could be more likely the construction たらいい of personal advice [“I should…”]), because I once read the て form should take the tense of the last verb (maybe I´m wrong and that´s only in sequential events)
many thanks for the clarifying!!
