チーズスイートホーム: Week 1 Discussion (Chapters 1-3)

Hi ! Just read first chapter :slight_smile: . I was wondering what was the form of the ころぶ verb in the end of the chapter (page 10 of the bookwalker version), phrase beeing : ねこころんでる . I get that this must mean “the cat fell”, but is isn’t past tense. Is it a contraction of ねこころんでいる ? Does ころぶ mean “to be down” as well as “to fall” ?

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Most of the time, the cat’s baby-speech involves dropping R sounds. So 帰る becomes かえう, and だろう becomes だおう and so forth. Like @Viridithon said above, it can help quite a bit to just read the dialogue out loud.

ちゃ is an abbreviation of ては. Seems to me like this is basically the ~てはいけない construction with an extra clause in the middle. You’ve pegged the translation bang on (aside from that misplaced apostrophe in “its” :stuck_out_tongue:).

Yes. It’s quite common in casual speech to drop the い from ~ている (and conjugations of it). ころんでいる = “is in a state of having fallen over”, or (in smoother English) “has fallen over”.

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Thank you Belthazar!

Good to know, but I’m now completely deaf to that flea-bitten moggy’s incoherent mewlings.
:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Thank you so much! I’ll get back and study that right now. Nice one! Thank you!

Oh no! I’m usually such a stickler (towards myself only) for things like that! It feels like as my Japanese improves, minuscule step by labourious minuscule step, my English is in free-fall!

Thank you Belthazar!

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Finished the chapters! The difficulty is definitely lower compared to Shirokuma Cafe, if you ignore the baby speech that is. I agree that it helps reading it out loud, but only if you already know the vocab words that Chi is trying to say. I got used to it pretty quickly though.

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Verb+たがる is used for a third person’s wish or desire. You don’t use Verb+たい for anyone but yourself. So 出たがる is “he/she/it wants to go out.” Adding みたい makes it “to look like/to seem like”, so: “Seems like she wants to go outside.”

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I kinda thought you could use ~がる or みたい. Or, you know, ~そう or と思う or whatever. Using both feels a little bit superfluous to me…

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The どうやら seems unnecessary too when there’s already みたい but what do I know :joy:

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Page 24

My best guesses…

猫洗うのってたいへんなのね

猫 - cats
洗う - to wash
の - nominaliser - ie “washing cats”
って - not sure about this… is this the informal quotation particle?
たいへん - difficult
な - between な-adjectives and the の particle, you have to put な. Is that right?
の - explanatory particle
ね - “isn’t it?”

“washing cats is difficult, right?”

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Page 10

I might be miles out here, my Japanese grammar is awful, so don’t trust this at all, but I think…
ん - explanation particle
だ - declarative (similar to, but not the same as, the polite marker です)
よ - “you know” sentence ending particle

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It’s the informal topic particle. 猫洗うのは…

Yah. Nouns too.

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Ah, yes, now that makes much more sense! Thank you!

分かった! Thank you so much!

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Thanks. And thanks to @Belthazar too. I managed to get the gist! Woop!

Also, thanks @marcusp for sticking around for this one, I’ve already learnt new things from seeing you break stuff down. I managed to get the gist of those sentences by myself and felt reasonably sure I had them right (so I didn’t ask), but now I feel like I understand them. :smiley:

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Lot’s of useful advice for learners on this thread already. Thanks everyone! I’ve been a bit put off by the baby language, especially with an unfamiliar word like びっくり. But the vocab sheet has been really helpful - thanks to whoever has contributed to this. And thanks to @Viridithon I got the book when it was free on bookwalker a few weeks ago!

Here was my translation for chapter 1 - probably with plenty of errors!

猫、迷子になる
Cat, becoming a lost child.

あえ?
(あれ?)
Huh?

ママどっち?
Where’s mama?

おうちどっち?
Where’s home?

みゃーん。ママ ママ
Miao! Mama Mama!

みゃーん。みゃおー。
Miao! Miao!

ママどこかしってう?
(ママどこかしている?)
Mama I know you’re somewhere?
“Mama where know”, or in better English “Do you know where mama is?”, as if Chi asked the dog. (Thanks @Toyger)

バオ
Woof!

は~ びっくいちた
(は~びっくりちゃった)
Pant! Completely frightened!
(alternative suggestion - びっくりした - that was frightening - thanks @Weirdmind)

こあ~
(こわい)
Scary…

おうちかえう
(おうちかえる)
Going home. Going home.

おうちどこだおう
(おうちどこだろう)
I wonder where home is.

おうちしってう?
(おうちしっている?)
Do you know home?

おなかすいた
(おなかがすいた)
I’m hungry

おうちわかない
(おうちわからない)
I don’t know (where) home (is)

うぇええ~
Uuuh…

あえ?
(あれ?)
Huh?

え~~
Crying sound.

きみもおうちわかないんらね
(きみもおうちわからないんだね)
You don’t know where home is either.

ころんでも自分で起きるんだよ
If you fall down get up by yourself!

おかあさん
Mother!

ねこころんでる
猫は転んでいる
The cat has fallen over

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Micki! So great that you are here too! This is starting to feel just like the good old days!
(Not actually all that long ago, it just feels like it!)
Thank you so much for your translation!

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I read this as “Mama where know”, or in better English “Do you know where mama is?”, as if Chi asked the dog =)

Rest is exactly as I saw it =)

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I think I can explain that one through the power of love friendship grammar. There are two questions:

  1. Isn’t たがる + みたい redundant?
  2. Isn’t どうやら + みたい redundant?

For たがる, it does appear somewhat redundant, as たいみたい should be enough. That being said, the issue is IMHO that in English, when we say “looks like” or “shows signs of”, there’s an implied deduction/judgement on the part of the speaker: it implies that we’re not sure. However, I am not convinced that the same applies to たがる, in Japanese, to the same extent. Even if you’re quite sure the person wants it, because, e.g., they just said so a minute ago, you could still use たがる instead of たい. In other words, while it is indirect, the level of doubt thus expressed is rather weak, I think. In fact, a straight unqualified たがる would often translate “someone wants”.

Regarding どうやら, it’s a bit of the same and a bit different. First, you’re right that it’s non-essential; it’s like adding “somehow” before “looks like” in English. Beyond that, in Japanese, I think it is commonly accepted that adverbs and the likes cannot alone convey possibility, certainty, etc. The textbook example is もし: you can’t form a correct “if” sentence with just もし; it needs a conditional such as ば or something. You have the same thing with たとえ, which calls for ても or somesuch to express concession. The point is that the adverb usually comes first and announces the conjugation, so they act as a pair of delimiters, if you will. It’s actually pretty helpful for reading as you can presuppose the mood of the clause you’re reading before even reaching the verb at the end. They also help disambiguate between different senses of the same conjugation, sometimes.

So, if you put it all together, たがる externalises the feelings as a visible state, adding indirectness but still expressing desire rather straightforwardly. みたい explicitly reframes the sentence as an uncertain judgement from the speaker. And どうやら co-occurs at the beginning of the sentence to signal the correct modality ahead of time.

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p14 - 子猫用?なにこれ?

Edit: 子猫用ミルク
用 apparently can mean “for the use of …, used for …, made for …”

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Is it just me or is seeing some of the kanji and furigana using https://read.amazon.co.jp/manga really difficult?

I believe it’s “What’s this?” and the reply is, “milk used for kittens”.

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子猫

  1. for the use of …; used for …; made for …​

@scallions owo

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