コンビニ人間: Week 4 Discussion

While it also took me too long to figure out they weren’t the same, they are essentially the same as far as I can tell:

It seems like it’s different forms of the same kanji. So it doesn’t really make a difference, and nothing bad comes out of mixing the two :stuck_out_tongue:

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Finished this last night. Thoughts as promised.

I was getting this feeling a bit last week but this time it was much worse. I think it’s sad that she is representing this whole persona she has created from bits of other people so in the end her “friends” don’t really know her, and when something from the real 恵子 slips out they act… like that.
I’m not sure 恵子 herself thinks this is sad, or is just like… I guess I have to do this so people won’t freak like when I was little and my family won’t worry so much. Leaning towards the second one for now but we’ll see.
I’m also not really feeling that she even likes these friends? Hopefully I’m wrong but it just seems like she has friends because she has been told that it’s weird not to, or they are just people she can practice her new-found “being normal skills” with, but for her they are just time she can’t dedicate to being at the コンビニ.

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I have to admit that I have already finished コンビニ人間 and am now reading わたし、定時で帰ります。

I think that 恵子 does not think of herself or her existence as sad. And yes, she does not really have friends, she makes some semblance of having friends because she thinks that is what is demanded of her. Although, I know that some people who are different in ways similar to her don’t care to try to fit in. Why does 恵子 think she should try?

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Super late on the reply here, but I actually asked the Japanese teacher at my Japanese school which it would be, and for some more tips in the future. In this case it’s あいた.

All doors are あける・あく, unless there are two doors which part in the middle and each move when you open them. If one doesn’t, it’s still あける・あく. In general, opening things will usually be with one of these two readings.

The other one (ひらく) will be for: books, files (physical and digital), etc. It can also evidently be used for meetings.会議が開きます。This is also what gets used for double doors that part both ways in the middle, like on a train. I asked if it was just for when two things move apart, so for example would eyes be ひらく and she said no, eyes are あける・あく.

Hopefully this is more helpful than confusing Essentially, I think it’s in general safe to assume あくif you aren’t sure.

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This is super helpful. Thanks! I’ve never been able to figure when to use which. This makes sense.

Repeat Club Discussion Starts Here!

30 January 2021

End Page (PB): 49*
End Page (HB): 44*
End Kindle Location: 461*
End Phrase: と店長が言った。
*This weeks reading does not stop at a clean breakpoint in the writing. It is also 4 pages longer than any section we have read so far, so plan accordingly!

Welcome to week 4!

Feel free to use past discussion for reference, but please don’t hesitate to post any questions or comments! The more we discuss the more we all learn, and the more fun it is! Also, I strongly recommend setting each week’s thread to “watching” to stay abreast of the discussion. Please try to mark any spoilers as such.

  • I’m reading along
  • I’ll catch up soon
  • I have no intention of catching up or the club has already finished, but I’m using the forums as reference

0 voters

Live Reading Sessions

The second live reading session will be 2021-01-24T03:00:00Z If you haven’t already, join the Japanese Book Club Discord. When the time comes to start, just enter the コンビニ人間 voice channel.

For live readings, we will take turns reading as much as we feel comfortable with (up to ~1 page), then go back and translate a section of our choosing together. Expect sessions to take anywhere from 1-2 hours, but feel free to join late or leave early as your schedule allows. We will be starting promptly at the designated time. Please post any questions regarding live reading session logistics in the Discord channel or on the home thread.

Vocab Sheet

Anybody should feel free to add to the vocab sheet. Read the guidelines on the first sheet- even if a word is not yet included you can use the spreadsheet as a tool to get help.

Discussion Questions

  1. What sentence/passage gave you the most difficulty? Feel free to request some help, or if you figured it out on your own break it down for the rest of us!

  2. What was your favorite new vocab word from this week’s reading?

  3. Was there any passage that you found particularly intriguing? Did it resonate with you (either positively or negatively)? Was it surprising? Offer any insight or new perspective? Was it just beautifully written?

  4. What do you think of Keiko’s relationship with her friends? Do the relationships she maintains benefit her?

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I liked it very much when Keiko was imitating 泉さん and 菅原さん while talking to her friends on p. 37-38. She started really well the meeting.
But then she was quieter and quieter and finally it was very sad when they started asking her about her job and love and sort of mocking her. She seemed at a loss
I really feel for her.

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明るく声をかけてきたミホと、持っているバッグが色違いだという話で盛り上がり、今度一緒に買い物に行こうと、メールアドレスを交換した。

明るく声をかけてきたミホ

Miho, who came towards me speaking cheerfully, ???

持っているバッグが色違いだという話で盛り上がり、

she got excited, telling me that my bag was the same as hers in a different colour

今度一緒に買い物に行こうと、

[and saying that] next time we should go shopping together

メールアドレスを交換した。

we exchanged email addresses.

What does that first と do?

I like that Keiko has a keen eye for the absurd, such as when she wonders who her friends are even talking to, as she has changed so much since they last saw each other, yet her friend still calls it 懐かしい.

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I would say the と links to the verb in the first half, 盛り上がる.
ミホと盛り上がり: to get excited together with Miho.
ミホと、…という話で盛り上がり: to get excited together with Miho about the topic … .

So I would say it wasn’t just Miho who was excited, but Keiko as well.
(盛り上がる translates kind of badly into English, but I hope you can see how the と works :laughing:)

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Per your last point, I also thought that was a really interesting observation about Keiko. The conversation feels rather awkward because we’ve gotten a pretty good idea of who she is at this point.

Keiko relies on what she thinks are rock-solid ways to be a “real person”, but the change is so surface-level that she doesn’t know how to react when met with constant contradictions. Imitation can only go so far if you don’t believe it that deeply yourself.

also yay easy dialogue reading lmao

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I’ve caught back up! I’m not out yet. My New Years’ Resolution was to read at least 3 more nonmanga books in Japanese, so I can’t go falling off here.

Reading the conversations, I feel a tension, the intended strength of which in the book I’m unsure of. Keiko is getting by off borrowed style and mannerisms, and I feel like it could all come crashing down at any minute (And may well do so, if the posts I’ve skimmed in this thread are any indicator) much like if I were to suddenly be transplanted into that situation.

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Comments (spoilers)

Haha, this week’s reading sure was 懐かしい… in how similar meetings usually went for me :joy:
But I don’t have the Keiko perseverance, and nowadays I’m usually avoiding gatherings like this, so it’s been a long time since I participated in one. (I mean even before pandemic.)

I especially liked how she uses phrases prepared for her in advance by her sister.
Sometimes, in some games, there are dialogue options with hidden points value? It is supposed to be a game simplification, but real life dialogues can feel this way for me, too.
But in my case, I’m bad with lying (and even social niceties can feel like lying to me, that’s why I’m struggling with them), so I would have problems with using a prepared fake phrase.

I find it funny how different both Repeat Book Clubs’ books are. Kiki was all about giving kids instructions how to function properly in a community, protagonist was supposed to learn how to be more patient/responsible/reliable, how to appreciate her mother’s teachings and so on.

And of course Konbini Ningen is also about finding a place in a community, in a way, but… all these values supported by 魔女の宅急便 are being treated as some alien, complicated concept here. :wink:

Quote is from the previous discussion:

I don’t think she keeps these friends only because it is “demanded” of her, but also because they are females of the same age.
Workers can only give her so much model examples, and not so many of them are the right age/gender.
As for why she thinks she should try… I think even people who gave up about trying to fit in had a phrase about at least trying to. :wink:

About new worker introduced this week… I’ve been wondering about all this detailed training that Keiko got years ago. It seems like he hasn’t got any? 店長 asks Keiko to show him everything. (Also, “覚えなきゃいけないことはたくさんあるからね!”)

Questions
  1. 25% for me
    このセミの抜け殻の中を歩いているような世界のどこかで、私の「お客様」が眠っているのだとぼんやり思う。

I know the word セミの抜け殻 was mentioned in a previous discussion, but only for its dictionary definition, while I don’t understand what it is a metaphor for. For customers…?

  1. 27% for me
    人手不足のコンビニでは「可もなく不可もなく、とにかく店員として店に存在する」ということがとても喜ばれることがある。

When there is a shortage of workers, it doesn’t matter if you’re a good worker, the most important part is just being there…?
(It doesn’t make sense, if a worker is truly awful at his job, he won’t make a situation any better.)

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Well I definitely failed to plan here! Using BookWalker so I’m not 100% where I’m up to, but probably not yet halfway…

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Here is is how I break it down:

Summary

このセミの抜け殻の中を = The inside of this cicada’s husk
歩いているような = like walking in
世界のどこかで、= Somewhere in the world
私の「お客様」が = My customers
眠っているのだと = Are sleeping
ぼんやり思う = I ideally thought

So something like: “Somewhere in this world which feels like the inside of a cicada’s husk, my customers are sleeping I idly think.”

My understanding is that it’s a metaphor for the area she is walking in - it feels totally empty, just office buildings, and yet somewhere, her customers are sleeping somewhere there. At least that’s my interpretation!

Not sure about the second question - hoping someone else chimes in.

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I think there is a contrast? Like the area feels unwelcoming, but the thought of her customers being there soothes her?

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I think there is an element of that, though the context for that sentence is that she is pondering on the fact that not everyone who comes to the convenience store is an office worker, like you would expect considering the surroundings and wondering where they come from. So there is a contrast, but I’m not sure it’s explicit (and I’m not sure the comforting part is explicit either). Also not sure about how much the word ぼんやり has a comforting element to it either. But happy to be corrected!

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O I didn’t mean it is there explicitly, that’s just what I took from it :slight_smile:

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Fair enough :slight_smile: We are on the same page then!

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Hi everyone! How do you people understand who’s talking when? When Keiko is hanging out with her ‘friends’ I had trouble deciphering who’s been saying what. I know that logically speaking it should be something like Person A-Person B-Person A-Person B, etc. However, sometimes it seemed that structure was broken, like Keiko was adding something else but because I’m not that comfortable reading I’m never 100% sure unless it’s explicitly mentioned who’s saying what. Any tips or tricks? :slight_smile:

Try to learn each character’s speaking style. Things like first person pronoun, sentence enders, and politeness level are some of the biggest indicators.

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