ふらいんぐうぃっち | Week 2 Discussion 🧹

This is also the home thread, not the week 1 thread. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Just shoot me :joy:

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Maybe tonight/tomorrow when the next week thread is created someone could be so kind to move these posts to the new thread so they are in the right place… Or I can also delete these if you want me to… Didn’t mean to clutter up the won’t thread.

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Could also just post a link to the question and answer so others can see it.

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Then someone like me will look where these clutters come from and search this forum and if failed, asked, more clutters. This is why I linked all related clutters to the related thread, and then I can easily delete my request post(s) after JenK moved ‘em.

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I was just having too much fun reading (probably didn’t help it was late and past the normal bed time when I posted)…Sorry for making a bit of mess of things…ごめんなさい :bowing_man:

I won’t delete the posts, but if someone else wants to it’s fine…whatever you want to do :wink:

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Just don’t feel bad. That’s all I can say in my limited English.

cc @JenK

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This is on page 26, right? I believe you are correct that it’s the past tense of ある repeated.

In the film 「となりのトトロ」, there is an early scene wherein Satsuki and Mei are looking for the stairs in their new house. They look around saying 「ない」 each time they don’t find stairs behind a door, until Satsuki finds them:

「あったよー」 Satsuki calls out to Mei.

atta%20i-062

As for translating Makoto’s line, I don’t think we can get a literal translation at all. It just won’t make any sense in English. (If I’m wrong, I welcome anyone giving a suggestion!) If I were translating this into English, I’d probably go with “Here they are,” because we wouldn’t use past tense in English. That is, unless you pass by something you’re looking for and miss it, then double back and find it, you might say, “Here they were.”

In the comic ごちうさ volume 1, 癖 is used one time for a “bad habit”, and クセ is used twice for a “tendency” (habit without a negative connotation). It’s possible Makoto is saying that bamboo brooms have a “tendency to be strong”. The grammar construct “nounが adjective” can be used to assign an attribute to a noun, and I think that might be what’s happening here, giving クセ (tendency) the attribute of 強い (strong). Considering she almost hit the ceiling, it makes sense that the broom was stronger than she expected.

That said, I (in my limited knowledge and experience) disagree with the fan translation of “quirk”. The broom simply was strong in its lift. There was nothing quirky about it. (Just my own impression!) (I’m presuming it’s a fan translation and not taken from the official translation.)

The first thing I notice here is that she actually says こちらの方 twice, but the first 方 is かた and the second 方 is ほう. You’re asking about the latter, but I think for anyone who may still be learning about かた vs ほう, it’s good to review both, so I’ll go over the first.

When 方 is pronounced かた, it will typically refer to a person. こちらのかた carries the meaning “This person,” so 「圭くん こちらの方は…」 translates as “Kei-kun, this person is…?”

After Kei introduces his friend, Makoto then introduces herself. She says, 「この度こちらのほうで魔女をやらせていただく」

This time, 方 is pronounced ほう, and here I believe it refers to a direction. 方 as ほう can have other possible meanings, but here’s my reasoning, which I hope is correct:

で can be used to indicate a place where an action takes place.

The action here is 「魔女をやらせる」 which I would very loosely translate as “to undertake becoming a witch”.

Could Makoto have trained to become a witch back home? Could she not? Maybe she couldn’t. She came to this town for a reason, and as Kei mentioned to his sister in last week’s reading about how long Makoto will be living with them, it sounds like she’s traveled out here to take the action of becoming a witch.

Thus, 「こちらのほう」 is the place where her training takes place, which is (loosely) “over here” (“this direction”, “this way”). Note that she begins with 「この度…」 meaning “at this time”.

In all, I get: “At this time…I’m out here as I’ve been given the opportunity to become a witch.” (Very lose translation here, writing the causitive nature of the verb and the いただく as “given the opportunity”.) Of course, the line is actually used as a descriptor of her (as it precedes her name), but I’ve translated it as if it were a standalone sentence.

Hopefully all my reasoning is sound. I still need a lot more experience seeing 方 in stories and manga.

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Well this whole exchange now looks pretty comical :joy:

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Yeah, silly me. No idea where I got that number from.

Aye, this is what I had in mind as a meaning for it, too. So I got it right. I just wanted some rough English translation to confirm this. :slight_smile:

That’s interesting. I’ll keep that in mind.

Yeah, I guess it is a fan translation. That sentence and the translation was still haunting me for a while after I posted my questions. :sweat_smile:
What I understood from reading was similar to what you said and it makes a lot more sense when looking at the pictures.
I guess I wont be checking that translation anymore or take it with an even bigger grain of salt because this quirk thing was very confusing and did the opposite of helping, haha.

Ahhh, I have a faint memory of having read about かた as a word for person a few weeks ago, but looks like my brain discarded that information. It should stay inside my brain now, I hope!

Thanks for your thorough explanations and thoughts, it’s incredibly helpful (the whole post!)! :slight_smile: :+1:

Can you elaborate on that? What’s the difference between it being a standalone sentence and a descriptor? Isn’t it its own sentence in the manga, too? Except the はじめまして
Or is it some kind of Japanese grammar concept that can’t be translated 1:1?

A little nitpicky, but doesn’t donokurai, espcially with kakaru, here mean “How long does it take [to get there?]” rather than “How far is it?” Unless you were trying to translate it less literally, in which case, I retract my qualm.

Edit: What is this abomination: オレにれから用事あっからダメなんだよ。
Edit 2: So the second one is him changing ru into xtsu. Still don’t get the first one, though.

I looked at this a bit in isolation (without the verb), but I should have taken the verb into consideration. Considering the verb, I agree to how long being a better translation, especially since Kei responds with a time interval.

Just checking, is the issue a transcription error? Or do you mean the use of これから?

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Yup, it was indeed これから.

Disclaimer: There’s probably a proper term for this. I just came up with “descriptor” on the spot because of the function of the portion of the sentence to describe a noun.

In Japanese, a noun may be preceded by a clause that acts to describe the noun. You’ll recognize this when you see a verb right before a noun. The clause ending in that verb describes the noun.

Here’s an example this chapter 1, page 12:

description%20i_0012

The clause in purple describes the noun in red. The clause to be a second cousin describes the noun relative. This is a relative who is a second cousin.

Here’s another example, from page 17:

description%20i_0017

There are plenty more instances (it’s common grammar in Japanese), but here’s jumping right to page 34:

description%20i_0034

Since this is a comic book, it’s possible she ends her sentence with いただく, then after that sentence is over, in a separate sentence gives her name. It’s also possible the clause ending in いただく is part of the same sentence as her name. Edit: As per @Naphthalene, the verb would be different if the sentence ended here, so we know it’s all one sentence, including her name.

Here’s an example of the two with an English sentence:

  • “I am Kappa420. I am reading ‘Flying Witch’.”
  • “I am Kappa420 who is reading ‘Flying Witch’.”

If anyone knows a proper name used for this in Japanese, or has a link to any helpful article that explains it a bit, that’d be great. It’s a bit hard for me to look up informative articles when I don’t know what terms to look for!

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No, it is not. She is using keigo, so it wouldn’t be proper to use the dictionary form. If the sentence ended there, it should have been やらせていただきます.

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Good catch! I was so focused on what I was writing that I completely spaced out on how she speaks.

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First off…I really appreciate all these fancy grammar explanations…it makes me not wanna read too fast cuz if I get stuck I don’t have to post up :slight_smile: These are wonderful…

To answer your question:

Genki II Page 80 describes them as

I’d post more but at that point…might be getting into copyright … but that’s the official title.

If you wanna look at bunpro:
https://www.bunpro.jp/grammar_points/357

They describe it as :

(not the most easiest to find…N5 grammar Lesson 6: 9/12

My 先生 just calls them noun phrases. Honestly these have been driving me crazy for months until I think I finally figured out how to use them correctly! It’s more of that “funny” Japanese word order that makes it confusing…nothing more! :wink:

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Isn’t that just what you call a “relative clause”? E.g. as demonstrated here:

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Japanese/Lessons/Relative_Clauses

Edit: a much longer and more detailed explanation is given here:

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Thanks for this, @shuly! If anyone can’t see the Bunpro link (I don’t know if requires being logged in), one of the linked sources is a Maggie Sensei post: How to modify a noun in Japanese.

Yup, that’s the same thing. I knew there had to be a “something clause” name out there, but I couldn’t think of it. (Thanks!)

Looks like there are all kinds of names for it out there! I wonder what the Japanese term for it is.

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Oh, now I get you, sorry! I misunderstood the “in Japanese” :wink:

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