にゃんにゃん Reading Group - currently reading pages 104 to 107


#1123

Pages 82 to 83

でも、リリーさんのほうは もし おかあさんに みつかっても よろこばれるんだから、水をかえるくらいの よゆうは あるのよ

Okay, lots here!

でも、- but
リリーさんのほうは - Lily-san on the other hand
もし - supposing
おかあさんに - mum + に particle
みつかって - 見つかる, to be found, in て form
も - also
よろこばれる - passive form of 喜ぶ, to be delighted
ん - explanation particle
だから、- so, therefore
水を - water (in the vase) + を particle
かえる - to replace
くらいの - about + の
よゆう - 余裕 - surplus; margin; leeway; room; space; time; allowance; flexibility; scope​
は - contrastive は particle?
ある - to be
の - explanation particle
よ - sentence ending particle for new information

“but, on the other hand, supposing it was Lily (not her father) that was found by her mother, the mum would be delighted to see her, so Lily had plenty of time (in which she could) change the water”

Not the most elegant of translations!


#1124

Judging by Weblio, 留守 seems to more closely mean “unattended”. The full expression is
家を留守にする and it fits the AをBにする = to make A into B pattern
“To make the house (into) unattended” i.e. to leave it unattended
It seems the 家を part is often dropped.
(に is not a location particle here.)

This is tricky. I’m going to guess it’s something like this

それは とちゅうで With them (the flowers) being in that state
水をかえた人がいるからよ A person giving water must exist.

I.e. “Since the flowers were in that state, someone has to have had watered them.”

And yes that’s 途中.

But I’m not really sure whether it can be used that way and maybe 途中で just refers to Ipponmatsu being on a trip… not sure what to make それは in that case though.


#1125

As a side note, のほう is a really common phrase that often doesn’t correspond to anything in English.
Your translation here is good.
In general it highlights that one alternative out of multiple is picked, I think (or as here, compared with the other).

I think this も more accurately means something like “even”. “Even if she were to be discovered”

I think here it’s just だ + から (since)

I suspect it means “something like”, i.e. “something like replacing the water”.

Yeah, I think it’s a contrast marker.

“But, as for Lily on the other hand, since, even if she were to be discovered by her mother, she would be gladfully received by her, she had plenty of time for things such as changing the water.”

But yeah, it’s one of those horribly complicated Japanese sentences that you would just break up in an English translation.


#1126

Thank you so much again @aiju for all your hard work going over my reading. I really appreciate the time and effort you’ve taken for this. And it’s all so useful! Thank you so much!


#1127

Thank you for the schedule for story two @guillepolito. I’ve made one for story three as well, which I’ll post below.


#1128

A reading schedule for story three, starting this coming Sunday, the 12th of August.

Day (DD/MM) Pages
12/08 86-87
13/08 86-89
14/08 88-91
15/08 90-93
16/08 92-95
17/08 94-97
18/08 96-99
19/08 98-101
20/08 100-103
21/08 102-105
22/08 104-107
23/08 106-109
24/08 108-111
25/08 110-113
26/08 112-115
27/08 114-117
28/08 116-119
29/08 118-121
30/08 120-123
31/08 121-125
01/09 123-127
02/09 125 - 129
03/09 127-130
04/09 129-130
05/09 130

#1129

Last Friday I was lurking the forums thinking about how I would love to read this book but how it was too late to catch up…and then my brain short-circuited and I bought it. So this week I’ve been reading it, and thanks to all of your great questions and explanations I finally finished the second story today. Now I can officially join the group for the next story (yay!). I usually don’t post much, but I’ll try to ask questions (doubt I could answer any).

It feels great being able to read this book and mostly understand everything (with your help). I joined the Beginner’s Book Club when they read 魔女の宅急便 but unfortunately had to drop it a few chapters in because it was too difficult for me and I didn’t have enough time to keep up. That was disappointing but reading this one makes me hope I’ll be able to read that book in the near future.


#1130

That is great! Thank you so much for posting this @Sylph! Looking forward to you joining us for the next story!


#1131

Do I need to know what happened in the first two stories to keep up with the plot? (I suppose/hope not…)
Got an Email today that my books are going to be shipped between 13th and 18th of August. So, I hope to catch up to you all!

So excited :smiley:


#1132

Nah, only minor things are carried over, the last story is a stand alone story that can easily be read without having read the first two =)


#1133

@Toyger Thanks a lot!

My books got shipped today, so I might not have to catch up on so many pages :smiley:


#1134

Still waiting for my book(s), but I will faithfully continue to lurk until I can join in properly. :eyes:


#1135

Reading of the third story in the book にゃんにゃん探偵団 starts now! All questions and answers are welcome as we are here to help each other. This book club is for people of all levels. Please try to read along with the schedule in the thread title (which works out at two pages a day) and please put the page number at the top of your posts. Let’s have fun!

Discusssion of chapter three, カポネ対ミミッチーマウス, starts here!


Links:


#1136

Page 86

The first sentence of the story! I can see what it means fair enough, but don’t understand how the grammar works at all.

カポネの健康診断に行ったかえり道

カポネの健康診断に - from Capone’s health check
いった - 行った - went
かえり - return
道 - road

“we were on the road returning from Capone’s health check”.

“Go” + “return” I can just about cope with, but what about Japanese sentences ending in a verb? Or is she simply setting on the scene, as you might at the start of an similar story (like setting a play) in English?

“On the road back from Capone’s health check”


#1137

Page 86

I know that たすけてくれー is 助けてくれー.
助けて is the て form of 助ける, (1) to save (2) to assist.
And くれー must have something to do with ください, but can anyone tell me what? Is it just a short form? Any ideas?


#1138

Page 89

ところが チャイムをならして たれも でてこない。

“Despite ringing the bell, no-one came [to the door]”, but what is that も after 鳴らして?


#1139

I think there is a “null-copula” (“dropped だ”) at the end of this sentence.
EDIT: Also かえり道 is listed as “return trip” in Jisho.
Literally something like “It was the return trip on which we went from Kapone’s health check”.
(Nicer translation would be something like “We were on the way back from Kapone’s health check”)

Actually no, it’s from the verb くれる (to give). It’s an irregular imperative くれ. The final vowel is elongated because it’s being cried out, c.f. “Heeeelp”.
Forming an imperative with te-form + くれ is very direct, but as JSL comments (about たすけてー) “Politeness can be abandoned in such situations”.

EDIT: As a sidenote, くれ is the regular imperative of the classical Japanese verb くる (the predecessor of くれる; not related to modern 来る, which was く). It seems to be an example of an older form that got preserved in modern Japanese by virtue of being common.

It’s the も particle. In this context it means “despite”, just like you translated.
(も is quite a difficult particle in general…)


#1140

Thank you so much @aiju! Got it all! Thank you! You really are very kind!


#1141

Page 90

I’ve been putting off asking questions as I now seem to be the only person doing so! Am I the only one who needs help reading this book? Or, worse, am I the only one still reading? Well, I know you are still reading aiju! Thank you!

Anyway, here goes:

あたしが 説明しているあいだも 「たすけてくれー」という声は つづいている。

“While I was giving an explanation, the voice [crying] “help!” continued”.

My question is that あいだも.

I’m guessing it is 間も, as I know that 間に means “while; during (the time when)​”, but what about 間も, does it perhaps mean “also during”. You did say aiju that も is a very tricky particle!


#1142

My books should be here next week, then I’ll be asking all sorts of questions, providing I get in before you!