にゃんにゃん - Kitty Detectives - Vol. 1

OK, so in looking at the relative clause we’ve been examining, I’m assuming that ~てある is a verb expressing a state so therefore either おいてあった or おいてある could be used in this case with no change to the meaning.
Is this correct?

By the way, thanks for the detailed explanation concerning relative clauses. That’s a lot of info to digest. :ok_hand: :+1:

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Yes, I think that is correct.

I also think that the ‘te ita’ caveat I mentioned applies here and so past tense is used here with some implication that Hanae had noticed the empty can before.

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OK, I think things are starting to clear up on this issue now. Really appreciate all your hard work. :v:

Page 76

So at the end of page 75 Capone meows and then…

すると その声をきいて、押入れのすきまから 子ねこが とびだしてきた。

すると - thereupon
その声を - that voice (Capone’s meow on p.75) + object particle
きいて、 - 聞く, to hear, in て form
押入れ - wardrobe
の - possessive
すきま - 隙間 - gap, opening
から - from
子ねこが - kitten + が-particle
とびだしてきた - 飛び出す, to jump out, in て-form + “came”.

“Thereupon, after hearing the meow, a kitten jumped out from a gap in the wardrobe”.

No questions, just thought it was a lovely sentence! :smiley:

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Page 76

Lots of questions about this… カポネと じゃれあっている。

All I understand is “with Capone” and something ending in ている which signifies an enduring state or (more likely here I guess) a continuing action.

But what is じゃれあっ…? I’d guess it would mean something like meeting or welcoming or playing with, but any pointers much appreciated!

Page 77

Likewise with page 77. 見つかっちゃった. Hanae is obviously saying they’ve found Catherine. But I can’t make head or tail of that string of hiragana after 見つか. Thanks again for any help anyone can offer.

I forget the context, but is it perhaps じゃれ合う

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Page 76

Brilliant! Thank you! (I also tried Jisho but couldn’t find it at all! Thank you!)

If I’m not mistaken, here ちゃった is the casual version of しまった, used to say that something happens unintentionally. So to me it gives something like:

Aha! Found! (surprised)

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Sometimes Jisho gets confused and you need to manually work back from the te/ta-form to the dictionary form.

Depending on the ending there are multiple things to try:

tte: u, tsu, ru
nde: mu, nu, bu
ite: ku, gu, iru
shite: su, shiru
te: ru

so here jarea-tte could be jarea-u, jarea-tsu or jarea-ru.

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Thank you both, @guillepolito and @aiju!

ちゃった = ~てしまった

Hey everyone!
sorry to interrupt, but I’m thinking about jumping in and ordering the book - or because of shipping costs, etc. all of the books in this series (meaning the cat and dog ones) in the hope of reading them all with you in the future.
I already read about the first 200 posts in this thread, but as I don’t want to spoiler me I didn’t read any further.

My question is: did you enjoy the story until now? Assuming most of us are adults (at least, in the last poll I’ve seen most of us were 20+ years old, I believe) - is it too childish or fun to read?
I’m still a beginner with learning japanese myself, but within the group I feel confident to try, read and don’t understand anything :rofl: But I don’t want to order the books and then finding the story too childish :see_no_evil:

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I like to think I’m an adult (I’m 24 for what it’s worth) but I love the books. I’m sad there aren’t more. They’re clearly children’s books but they’re very well written and quite enjoyable.

EDIT: They remind me a bit of “Three Investigators” and similar stories I read as a kid. Maybe a bit more lighthearted in tone.

It might be worth noting that the Yakuza (and a gun!) appears in the first book (not by name but it’s pretty clear, I think) and the second book mentions insurance fraud as a possible motive.
Clearly not for very small children. :slight_smile:

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Pages 78 and 79

Phew, I’ve just had a quick read-through and have caught up with the group!

My main problems on page 78 were (1) Lily saying that she went to her mum’s house in secret when her mum wasn’t there and キャサリンだけ もらってきたんです. But of course she didn’t “receive” the cat, she simply took it. I suppose she uses this verb to gloss over what she did? And (2) that last sentence: やっぱり かえさないと だめでしょうか?“Of course, having to take her back home is wrong, isn’t it?” I couldn’t figure out what was going on there, but of course this is Lily trying to get Hanae to agree that it would be wrong to return Catherine! LOL!

And then on page 79 I had some trouble with そこからさき. I figured そこから meant “from there”, and さき was 先, which I thought meant “previous” but which I now know can also mean “future”! But together, I can’t find anything on Jisho or anywhere else. However, my resident expert says it means “from now on”, or “in the future”, which of course makes perfect sense.

Also, to answer your question @Atani; is it too childish? No, I don’t think so at all. Of course it is a children’s book, but I love the characters and the amazing sense of fun that runs through the stories. I’m a bit disappointed that the solution to the second story seems to have been so obvious, but there are still four pages of text left and I trust the author enough to know that it’s not over yet! So yes, great fun!

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Thanks a lot @aiju @marcusp for your quick answers!
I think I will give the books a try then - hopefully they’ll arrive soon, so that I can jump in and read along with you all :blush:

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That’s great! Nice one!

I’m not 100% sure but Jisho and WIktionary both list an alternative sense of “take”.
Don’t read too many English connotations into words.

やっぱり naturally
かえさないと not returning her (note negative form of かえす) + quotation particle to incorporate it into sentence ‘if’ particle (see correction by Adrian0121 below)
だめ not good
でしょうか “wouldn’t it?” kind of phrasing indicating hesitation

EDIT: remove irrelevant explanation about quotation particle that’s not relevant here, since it’s not a quotation particle but ‘if’.

I think grammatically it’s a straightforward construction.
Remember, modifier first.
そこから “from here” (used in an abstract sense)
さき “ahead”
=> English would be literally “ahead from here”
Japanese, like many languages really, has a lot of time and space expression that are identical/similar (English as well: “in 2011”, etc.)
in this case, of course, idiomatic English prefers “from now on”

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Thank you as ever @aiju! Where would my reading (and this whole book club) be without you? Thank you!

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やっぱり かえさないと だめでしょうか

To add onto what @aiju said, ないと is one of the many forms you can use in Japanese to express “must do something.”

If you haven’t seen it before, the general pattern is, as aiju stated, “if don’t verb, not good / it doesn’t go / etc,” which we translate as “I have to do” or “I must do.” However, I believe here と means “if.”

The grammatical structure of these sentences is: negative short form verb + ending meaning “if” + phrase meaning “not good / it doesn’t work, etc”

For example:
かえさない + と + だめ
“If I don’t return (Catherine), it’s not good.”

@marcusp That’s the short explanation for this sentence. There are a ton of different ways express “must,” so I’ll leave the explanation to the grammar sources. Here is the Tae Kim entry. I don’t know which grammar books you have but I learned this from Genki 1 and then saw it again in Tobira which introduced even more variation and nuance. I could post screencaps if anyone wants, let me know.

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Ah, thanks for the correction.
You’re right.
It’s not a quotation particle, but the ‘if’ particle!
In this case it’s used to indicate a natural consequence (it can also be habitual and Kuno mentions that in story telling it can also be a suspenseful way of connecting two statements).

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