なぜ?どうして?Finished! (But open for post-bookclub discussions)

There’s a link in the OP:

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It makes total sense.

After the first coments, I translated it in a few comment above as:

“However, there are places in the world where completely different countries have flags that look mostly the same”

But I like more your translation. It seems more natural. Also, not being a native English speaker doesn’t help me much :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Thanks - how did I completely missed this?!

Sorry, I didn’t see your translation.

I’m also not a native speaker (although I worked as an interpreter in the past, so I guess I’m ok with English).

Actually, Just found out that "同じ見える” translates as “looks the same”, not “you can see the same”, so yours is better…

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Title! なぜ?どうして?

Please forgive me for posting out of sequence here, but I have just started watching another Missa video (she is totally brilliant!) and was completely shocked by the first two minutes of it! She says that using なぜ?is a common mistake - and yes, I hardly ever actually speak Japanese, but this is one word I have often used! I was so shocked, I had to share. I’m sure the whole video is good (they always are) but you must watch the first two minutes!

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Omg, haha :rofl: I even knew it was Monaco, I have no idea why I wrote Moroco, think I was just really tired :stuck_out_tongue:

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Nice one - thank you! I had that very question.

I still don’t get why the title of the book uses both なぜ and どうして though?

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I have the feeling it’s pretty formal, using が as but, and so on…

Maybe it’s how they are introduced to formal writing.

But the section titles are not formal at all… :thinking:

Page 41

モナコと インドネシアの 国旗は、 正式な 形は ちがいますが、国際連合で きめた ルールだと、まったく 同じに 見えて しまうのです。

But Monaco and Indonesia’s official flags shapes are different. When the United Nations decided the rule, they looked completely the same Not sure about the grammar of “しまうのです”

モナコの 正式な 国旗の 形。インドネシアの 正式な 国旗の 形。

Monaco’s official flag shape. Indonesia official flag shape

色は どちらも 赤と白ですが、色が あらわす いみは 違います。

Both are red and white (colors), but the colors represent and mean different things

*国際連合。。。せかいの 平和と あんぜんを まもるために、たくさんの 国が、さんかして つくられた しくみ。

The United Nations… It defends the world peace and safety. Many countries participated in it’s formation Lose translation

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My translation isn’t much different from yours, I was also confused by しまうのです so I’m hoping someone can shine some light on this one. :slight_smile:

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  1. しまう (u-verb) – to do something by accident; to finish completely

So the flags looks mostly the same by accident. Not by some evil mastermind :stuck_out_tongue:

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Page 40

Your translation is so much better than mine! I had a lot of questions on this one, but after seen yours it’s quite clear.

Just a question:

Wouldn’t it be There is a rule that says that “National flags have to match in size when arranged in a line.” instead? What do you think?

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Page 41

Wouldn’t it be Although the official shape of the national flags of Monaco and Indonesia are different, with the United Nations’ resolution they really do end up looking the same." ?

The rest is pretty much the same as mine :slight_smile:

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I finally got this book as a present, so I will try to read up and join you guys :slight_smile:

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It makes total sense. They were different, but with the UN decisions they ended looking the same by accident.

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Page 41

39ページで しめしたように, 色は どちらも 赤と白ですが、色が あらわす いみは ちがいます.

39ページで - on page 39
しめした - plain past form of 示す, to show, to point out, to indicate. (Why is this verb in the past form?)
ように, - 様に (but usually written in kana), in order to; so that;
色は - colour/s
どちらも - both
赤と白です - are red and white
が、- but
色が - the colours
あらわす - 表す - to represent (Why is this verb in dictionary form?)
いみは - 意味 - meaning + は
ちがいます - 違います - are different

“As shown on page 39, both [flags] are red and white, but their colours represent different meanings”.

Does anyone know why 示す is in plain past, and 表す in dictionary form? It’s a mystery to me! Thank you!

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Maybe past tense because it was on a previous page and it was already drawn? That’s just my guess.

But what’s really driving me crazy about this sentence is that there’s nothing following it to explain what the colors mean!

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I ordered my book back in the Meiji era and it still hasn’t arrived! :sob: I hope it comes soon and I can just start where y’all are at. :open_book: :mag:

I’m going by assumption on the sentence (since I don’t have the book yet), but I believe it’s the following:

  • 示した - plain past - because it’s referring to something displayed on a previous page, so it’s considered a thing that already happened. Even in English, that’s why it’s “as shown” instead of “as shows”.

  • 表す - dictionary form - the dictionary form is actually the same tense as the ます form. 表す = 表します. This is considered the “non-past affirmative form,” which expresses “future or habitual actions” (basically, “do” or “does”). Dictionary form is the plain form of this, while ます is the polite version. I’m guessing this tense is being used because the flag is current and the color meanings are current, so therefore it’s a present/future action taking place. “The meaning of the colors is” instead of “The meaning of the colors was.”

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Yeah, you are right - I mistranslated そろえる, as it can also mean to arrange in order and I wasn’t sure which meaning to go with. Now that I know what the rest of this text says (about how the two flags are actually different and only look the same when they are the same size) it’s clearer what this sentence means. :slight_smile:

I think sometimes the sentences in this book aren’t always 100% clear when translating only a page at a time and I get tripped up on some verbs that can have multiple meanings.

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