なぜ?どうして?Currently reading pages 85 to 88


#2136

You are both quick :stuck_out_tongue:


#2137

Thanks for that. I had gone for “they are ALSO good at swimming” but I think you are right. Unless it is saying they are good at swimming, as well as lazing on the beach…


#2138

Page 79:

For this phrase I have a slightly different translation:
きれいな 海を、 ならんで およぐ すがたは とても かわいらしく、 すっかり かん光きゃくの 人気ものです。

Their lovely way of swimming side-by-side in the pretty beach is a very popular attraction for tourists

I still don’t like the を here. It indicates the object of what verb? およぐ? Does およぐ take a direct object? You can swim in the ocean or river, etc… bu then you use で


#2139

Can someone refresh me the grammar for -ta form + り?


#2140

Genki explains it something like this:

You can use the te form to link two verbs:

e.g. 東京でテニスをして、ビールを飲みます。
In Tokyo, I will play tennis and drink beer.

But this sentence implies that playing tennis and drinking beer are the only things you will do, and also that you will do the things in that order.

The たり… たりする construction can be used instead. This construction implies that these are examples of things you will do, rather than a complete list. It also doesn’t imply they will be done in a set order. So it means: I will do things like A and B.

e.g. 東京でテニスをしたり、 ビールを飲んだりします。
In Tokyo, I will do things like playing tennis and drinking beer.

To make the たりform you just add り to the –た form of the verb (i.e. the informal past tense).

Examples:

する: -た form is した;-たりform is したり

飲む: -た form is 飲んだ;-たりform is 飲んだり

And in our text:

もらう: -た form is もらった;-たりform is もらったり

およぐ: -た form is およいだ;-たりform is およいだり

On the end of the construction we put the appropriate form of する– in my example the polite present します.

So the overall construction is:

(predicate/activity A)たり (predicate/activity B)たり する。

That was useful revision for me! The examples are my own. I spotted one error when I was checking so please let me know if you spot another!


#2141

That’s awesome!!


#2142

Very nice explanation. Thanks!


#2143

Although およぐ is intransitive, it can be used with を. Tae Kim says,”The only time you can use the 「を」 particle for intransitive verbs is when a location is the direct object of a motion verb…”

These are some examples of intransitive verbs with を (from here)

出る = to leave home

飛ぶ = to fly in the sky

歩く = to walk on the street

公園 散歩する = to take a walk in the park

So 海をおよぐ can be translated as “to swim in the ocean”.


#2144

Thanks Trout. That’s a really helpful explanation. Well done on finding the link!

So if we can translate 海をおよぐ as “to swim in the sea”, can we translate the sentence as:

きれいな 海を、 ならんで およぐ すがたは とても かわいらしく、 すっかり かん光きゃくの 人気ものです。

The cute (sweet) figures swimming side by side in the lovely ocean, are a really popular thing with tourists.


#2145

Page 80:

水が と中で きえちゃう ふしぎな たきが ある!

There are amazing waterfalls where the water disappears midway!

水が 高い ところから いきおいよく おちる たきは、見ていて とても すがすがしいですね。

Waterfalls with water that falls vigorously from a high place seem very refreshing, aren’t they?

せかいには、いるいるな たきが あり、人気の かん光地に なっています。

In the World there are various waterfalls that are becoming a popular tourist attraction.

カナダと アメリカを またぐ、ナイアガラの なきは とくに 有名です。

The Niagara falls, that spans between Canada and the US, are especially famous


#2146

Thanks emucat.

What is your understanding of 見ていて in the second sentence:

水が 高い ところから いきおいよく おちる たきは, 見ていて? とても すがすがしいですね。

見て is the te-form of 見る, and いて the te-form of いる. But what do they mean together?


#2147

Not sure if this is correct, but I translated the second sentence like this:

水が 高い ところから いきおいよく おちる たきは、見ていて とても すがすがしいですね。

The force of water falling from a high place, watching this is very refreshing, right?

I thought the 見て with the +いる was the third meaning on Jisho:

https://jisho.org/word/居る

  1. to be …-ing; to have been …-ing​ Usually written using kana alone, after the -te form of a verb; indicates continuing action or state

So I translated it as “seeing” or “watching”… or something like that? … but I’m not really sure to be honest.


#2148

In your translation you are missing the subject/topic, right?


#2149

Page 80:

いて(いる)Usually written using kana alone, after the -te form of a verb; indicates continuing action or state
I translate it as “seem”, as seeing very refreshing looked weird.

Maybe we can summon @Leebo


#2150

I was just coming here to ask this.

Trouble is, it’s gotta be something like “(I’m) watching it, and it’s very refreshing”, which is not really a tone the book has taken at any point so far. Saying that the act of watching itself is refreshing would be 見るごとが


#2151

that’s what I came up with “Seems” refreshing…


#2152

We see this te-form and iru a lot, but when I’ve seen it it’s always been as いる, います (or the negative or past forms of these). I haven’t seen it with いて.

There are pages with long lists of what you can do with the て form, e.g.

https://kawakawalearningstudio.com/all/exactly-te-form-japanese/

…but ~ていて is not on the lists.

The only post I’ve found on this is:

…which discusses it being an explanatory form and similar to saying ~ているので


#2153

I get it as 見る in て form + いる for continuous action, and then another action. Therefore the first one has to be also in て form = 見ていて… but now that I’m checking it… there is no other action… so I don’t know :stuck_out_tongue:
Also, the subject/topic is the waterfall… the waterfall cannot see, so passive form?


#2154

It still counts as a て form construction even if it’s used in an auxiliary verb.


#2155

The waterfall is the topic, but I would say that assuming the sentence has been correctly copied from the book (again, I don’t have it myself), I would say that there is a different, implied subject in the second half.