なぜ?どうして?Currently reading pages 46 to 49


#1634

Page 47:

バンコクの 正解です。

Bangkok is the correct answer

でも、正式な 名前は バンコクでは ありません。

But the official name of Bangkok is not that

バンコクの 正式名称は、つぎのように なります。

The official name of Bangkok is the following

There we go… expect typos.

「クルンテープ・マハーナコーン・アモーンラッタナコーシン・マヒンタラーユッタヤー・マハーディロック・ポップ・ノッパラット・ラーチャタニーブリーロム・ウドムラーチャニウェートマハーサターン・アモーンピマーン・アワターンサティット・サッカタッティヤウィサヌカムプラシット」と いいます。

It’s called Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Ayuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit

Under the picture:

バンコクの 有名な お寺、ワット・ポー。 この お寺も 正しくは 「 ワット・プラチェートゥポンウィモンマンカラーラーム=ラーチャウォーラマハーウィハーン」と いいます。

Bangkok famous temple Wat Pho. This temple is properly called Wat Phra Chetuphon Vimolmangklararm


#1635

Yeah this is exactly what I had also. :slight_smile: Definitely never want to type that name out again! :joy:


#1636

Page 46

Can anyone help explain the lack of か at the end of this てしょう? I’m not too sure either…


#1637

Page 48:

おぼえきれないくらい 長い 名前ですね。

The name is too long to be remembered, right?

バンコクは、むかしの タイの 国王、ラーマ一世が、 みやこを この 地に うつして できました。

In Bangkok, the Thailand King from long time ago Rama the First was able to change the capital to this one

国王が この 地の すばらしさを 歌いあげ、その ことばが そのまま みやこの 名前と なったのです。

The king sang magnificently and those words became the capital name just like that

Not sure about すばらしさを. The を indicates is the direct object, but the meaning seems to be and adjective or adverb…


#1638

Page 48 seems kind of weird, here’s what I ended up with

おぼえきれないくらい 長い 名前ですね。

This name is much too long to remember, right?

バンコクは、 むかしの タイの 国王、ラーマ一世が みやこを この 地に うつして できました。

As for Bangkok, the Thai king from long ago, Rama I, was able to change the capital to this place.

国王が この 地の すばらしさを 歌いあげ、 その ことばが そのまま みやこの 名前と なったのです。

The king sang of the splendor of this place and so those words became the name of the capital.

The reason why I thought it wasn’t talking about the king singing magnificently was because I am translating この 地の すばらしさを as more like “the splendor of this place”. 地のすばらしさ = lit. place’s splendor/magnificence?


#1639

Page 46:

~でしょう is the conjecture form of です. On its own, it means “it seems” or “probably”. It can take か at the end if you’re asking for agreement or confirmation, but this can also be dropped if it’s obvious from tone of voice that you’re asking a question. With no か at the end, you can also assume there’s just a conjecture statement being made.

Conjecture/statement:
さむい でしょう - it seems cold.
あの とり は スズメ でしょう - that bird is probably a sparrow

Conjecture + question/agreement
さむい でしょうか = さむい でしょう? = it seems cold, [doesn’t it]?
あの とり は スズメ でしょうか = that bird is probably a sparrow, [isn’t it]?

For the book sentence:
では、タイの 首都は どこでしょう。

There’s no か at the end because the book isn’t looking for your agreement or answer on where the Thai capital is–it’s about to tell you. But before it tells you, it’s making a conjecture statement about where this capital might be, in contrast to other capitals you already know about.

イギリスは ロンドン、フランスは パリ、中国は 北京ですね。
England is London, France is Paris, China is Beijing, right.

では、タイの 首都は どこでしょう。
If so, the Thai capital is probably where.

In English, since this is an instructional book, the sense would be “The capital of England is London, in France it’s Paris, in China it’s Beijing, you see. So, let’s find out where the capital of Thailand is.”


#1640

Are the sparrow examples on purpose?


#1641

Excellent explanation - thank you!


#1642

Absolutely :ok_hand: :hatched_chick:


#1643

Page 48

国王が この 地の すばらしさを 歌いあげ、 その ことばが そのまま みやこの 名前と なったのです

I was having problems with this sentence, so here’s my working out:

国王が - king + がparticle
この すばらしさを - this earth’s [place’s] splendour. “The splendour of this spot” + を
歌いあげ、- from 歌い上げる - to express one’s feelings fully in a poem; to praise in poetry​
その ことばが - those words + が
そのまま - just as they were
みやこの 名前と - the city’s name + と (quotation marker)
なった - became
の - explanatory particle
です - polite ending

Yep, I reckon @Luacat has nailed it:

“The king sang of the splendor of this place and so those words became the name of the capital”.

:+1:

My only question is… why does 歌いあげる end in its masu-stem?


#1644

Page 48

I think it’s probably this happening again:


#1645

Again! (I keep learning, I keep forgetting, story of my life!)
Thank you once more @JavaSparrow!


#1646

国王が この 地の すばらしさを 歌いあげ、 その ことばが そのまま みやこの 名前と なったのです

When I looked at this sentence, something at the end of the sentence seemed weird to me and I couldn’t quite figure it out at first then I thought the verb なる(become) is usually written with に in front of it so it looks like になる. So why a と in front of なる?

So I looked up the word となる in Jisho and it means the same thing as になる. So if it means the same thing then why did the writer choose となるinstead?

Maggie Sensei to the rescue! She says,

“The verb なる means to be or to become, to turn into.
Adding とand に in front it changes the meaning a bit.
The basic differences? While になる is a natural change,となるimplies having reached a final stage."

母になる to be a mother
母となる to become a mother as a final stage (a bit dramatic)

先生になる to be a teacher
先生となる to become a teacher as a final stage

So getting back to the original sentence, it’s implied then that “…those words became the name of the capital” as a final stage or final act.

Of course, it’s also reinforced by そのまま meaning “as it is now” or “as it still is today”.

Learn something new everyday!


#1647

@trout Thank you for sharing this! I never knew about that nuance.


#1648

Page 48 to 49

I see! Thank you!
I didn’t understand what the と was doing there and so lazily assumed it was a quotation particle or something, but your explanation makes so much more sense! Thank you so much!


#1652

Nice find, I didn’t know about this either. :slight_smile:


#1653

I couldn’t work out why you were translating うつして as “to change” rather than “to transcribe” (which is what came up when I looked it up on Jisho).

Finally realised there was a second word with different kanji further down the page on Jisho. So we are translating this as 移す “to change” not 写す “to transcribe”.

The sentence stills sounds a bit weird. It should maybe be “Rama I moved the capital here” (from where it was before). Don’t really see why it needs the できました in there though.

Maybe:
移して- changing
できまひた- was built (alternative translation from Jisho)

Translating as - “reestablished the capital in this place”
Or “rebuilt the capital” in more simple English.


#1654

I see できました as to “to be able to”… so he was able to change the capital (name? or the whole city to another place?)


#1655

Page 49:

タイの 人たちに とっても あまりに 長いため、バンコクの ことを いちばん はじめだけ とって 「クルンテープ」と よびます。

Thailand people, because this very VERY long name, began only most to say the word Bangkok, called Krung Thep (in Tai)

これは、「天使の みやこ」と いう いみの ことばです。

This word means Capital of the Angel


#1656

The wanikani definition of 出来る is to be able to do but Jisho lists a number of other translations: https://jisho.org/search/出来る

The king was able to move the capital from one place to the other side of the river (he was able to do this because he was king) http://mythaionline.net/bangkok-krung-thep-maha-nakhon-part-1/

but it doesn’t feel like the sentence needs to tell us he was able to it, which is why I wondered if the “to be made, to be built” alternative translation for 出来る might work better.