なぜ?どうして?Currently reading pages 121 to 124


#2446

I’m still here! But all my time goes to reviews and lessons…


#2447

Page 109

Sentence one :
大雨で たてものが こわれても, すぐに なおせるように 足場として つかうのです

大雨で - heavy rain + で, in
たてものが - 建物, building, + が
こわれても, - 壊れる, to be broken, in て-form + も
すぐに - 直ぐに, immediately; right away; at once; instantly
なおせる - 直す, to fix, potential form
ように - 様に, in order to
足場 - scaffold / foothold
として - as
つかう - 使う, to use
のです - explanation particle + polite ending

[the protrusions mentioned on page 108] are used as scaffolding or footholds in order to quickly be able to fix it if the building is broken in heavy rain.

I’ve translated the も as “if”. What do other people think?


#2448

Page 109

Sentence two :
また, こわれていなくても 年に 一回 町の 人たちが せん門家と 力を 合わせて じょうぶに します

また, - and
こわれていなくても - even if not broken
年に 一回 - once a year
町の 人たちが - the people of the town
せん門家と - 専門家と, with experts
力を - effort / support / etc + を
合わせて - collectively
じょうぶに - 丈夫, healthy; robust; strong; solid; durable + に
します - do

“Plus, once a year, even if it is not broken, the people of the town, alongside experts, work together to strengthen [the building].”


#2449

Oh… See:

固める to harden 他動詞
作るー作られるー to be made 受身形

固めて作られる Just means to be hardened. You’re overthinking it. This is pretty intuitive the more you read stuff in Japanese, it just doesn’t translate well into English.

EXAMPLE: Cement hardens in water. (I"m not sure if this is true I, havent taken chem since HS)

町の歩道は水にセメントを固めて作られ, 「ポポ」として有名です - The city sidewalk is made from Cement hardened in water & is known as Popo

Note the bolding & italicization; this is a lil tricky

EDIT: Jeez its early in the AM. I had to edit my above example a bit longer for it to be relevant/related to how the mud example is in the book. I edited this post like 10 times…I was using the wrong verb too HAHAHAHA


#2450

Page 107

Thanks for taking the time to try to explain!

^^This is my usual mode also, but if I can’t explain what it means in English or how I arrived at my interpretation, then I worry that I don’t fully understand it.

I should have gone straight to the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar, because now that I have checked there, I see one of the six listed て form functions is:

A1 is the means by which someone does A2 or the manner in which someone does A2.

(A1: the action or state expressed by the first predicate; A2: the action or state expressed by the second predicate)

Examples:

  1. 僕は歩いて帰った。(ぼくはあるいてかえった。)
    (Lit. I walked and went home. (=I went home on foot.))
  2. 健二は急いでご飯を食べた。(けんじはいそいでごはんをたべた。)
    (Lit. Kenji hurried and ate his meal. (=Kenji ate his meal in a hurry.))

Hope this also helps anyone else who is still struggling with this sentence :sweat_smile:


#2451

Yeah it’s pretty hard to explain but simple to understand. Like I said, just from reading a lot of things I think verb inflections become intuitive, I didn’t even consider how tough this could be to understand until trying to explain it lol.

For this one (and only this one), I blame the english, not the japanese.


#2452

Yea, I’m sure second year students in Japan immediately understand what this means just from hearing it a lot.

Just a related side question. In the chapter on stone money, we saw 石で できていた meaning “made from stone”. So would something like 固めた どろで つくられます be the same as どろを かためて つくられます?


#2453

Yep identical in meaning


#2454

OK, thanks!


#2455

“If” sounds good to me in this context. Nice work on the translation, saved me a lot of time looking things up!


#2456

I actually didn’t know about that function of も, so I looked it up :sweat_smile: I think this is what was probably used here (4th, 6th points) Maggie - ても


#2457

That’s great! Thank you for the link @FlamySerpent!


#2458

I think the で particle attached to 大雨 is being used here to give reason or causation.

A very similar sentence example from DOJG:

大雨で 橋が こわれた。
Literally: Because of heavy rain the bridge broke down. (=Heavy rain destroyed the bridge.)

Another example sentence and uses of で particle from here.

台風で 飛行機が 遅れる
The flights will be delayed due to the typhoon.

So I think it can translated something like

Even if heavy rain destroys the building, (the protrusions) are used as scaffolding so it can be fixed right away.


#2459

Wow, thank you @trout! Much appreciated!


#2460

Page 110

I won’t post a translation yet. I would like to understand the “verb + たり、verb + たり” structure a bit better.

I understand it’s used in compound sentences to express a sequence of actions, but can it be used as an “if” as well? In the first sentence, could it mean “imagine if…” instead of only a sequence of actions?

EDIT: please ignore this post - I made a mistake in the conjugation and was corrected below. .


#2462

Interesting thought. Just wondered if you could elaborate a little on your thinking about “imagine if”.


#2463

My understanding is that is an inexhaustive and not-necessarily sequential list.


#2464

Well, so I was thinking that the result is contrary to expected (i.e.: “When it gets dark, with one “flick of a switch” it doesn’t get bright”), so I was using a fair amount of logic to make sense of the sentence. But logic has let me down before!

Either way, I thought it would make sense if, because of this unexpected outcome, it were another use of the conditional 〜たら “if”. Does this make sense?

EDIT: As pointed out by @trout below, I made a mistake and mistranslated あかるくなった as あかるくなかった.


#2465

uh, apparently I can’t read kana - see trout’s post below…


#2466

I think the confusion might be 明るくなった vs. 明るくなった.

The なった in 明るくなった is from past tense of なる. So it’s “became brighter”.

The other, 明るくなった is “was not bright”.

Edit: forget what I said here in this edit previously