かがみの孤城 Week 1

late morning? after morning but also prenoon doesn’t really make sense in english since it’s morning until the moment it’s noon :sweat_smile:

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I learned things like あとちょっと ‘a little while more’ (=after this, a little while) and あと一歩 ‘one more step’ (=after this, one step) as phrases, so I don’t think I can help on a grammatical level with this. Hopefully someone else has deep dived this.

If I were to speculate: I don’t think the copula has anything to do with it, but I guess a point could be made that あと has an adverbial/adjectival function in these phrases?

後で would simply mean ‘later’, with the particle marking 後 as the point in time something occurs.

Exactly why we’re not having any success finding a good equivalent. ;D We’re looking for a word to specify that time frame in between a bit after morning starts until just before noon. But I guess late morning or just morning will do since ‘Vormittag’ isn’t such a specific timeframe anyway.

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I know, it’s just really weird to throw 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. into the same time frame, when you’re used to a differentiation. Those times do not feel alike, at least not in my daily life …

And English does make a difference between afternoon and evening, so it’s not a weird concept in and of itself.

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if it’s before I want to be awake (or even before I’ve gone to bed), it’s early morning (or early hours of the morning). if it’s after that, it’s just the morning. it’s a bit before noon and I’m starting to think about lunch, it’s late morning :thinking:

but yeah, not a weird concept, just weird to express in terms of morning and noon.

yeah I think あと is an temporal adverb modifying ちょっと here. this is probably one of the corners of japanese spoken grammar that it’s best not to think too hard about…

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So you need to describe what you mean because you don’t have a word for it. Tough luck :upside_down_face:

あと is a noun. I seriously doubt it modifies ちょっと . ちょっと is the modifier here.
But that’s just theoretical blah blah, as long as we can make the sentence make sense.

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I mean…something like “late morning” is probably widely understood enough that you could argue it’s already a compound word (like vormittag). compound words in english are hard to spot because they can have spaces in them. either way, adj + word isn’t exactly tiresome :stuck_out_tongue:

meaning 4 :wink:
https://jisho.org/word/後

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That basically only says that in English, you use an adverb in that place.

it says it’s classed as an adverb in japanese (I haven’t seen a J-E that tells you the word class in english rather than japanese).

but either way, J-Js also class it as a 副詞 in this usage…
e.g. the daijiten says (from weblio):

2 〔副〕 (数量を示す語を伴って) その数量が加われば、時間的、空間的または数量的に予定した何かを充たすことを示す。「あと一メートルでゴール」「あと一枚ある」「あと一時間かかる」「あと少しだ」など。

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Thank you for that quote which, in addition to proofing you right, also has this beauty in it:

あと一メートルでゴール

It first confused the hell out of me, and then I noticed the tiny difference between those dashes and got all excited that there actually is a (barely visible) difference!

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you and me both :sweat_smile:

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I might be beating a dead horse here and Denzo already hit the nail on the head with Jisho meaning 4 and the Weblio definition, but I wanted to say that 後 to mean “left” or “remaining” is fairly common usage. It’s actually a Bunpro grammar point. For more examples check out section 4 on the linked MaggieSensei article. (In this usage it can have an adverbial, adjectival or even noun “feel” if you were to translate to English, so I don’t find the concept particularly useful except for those hardcore grammar nerds out there)

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This is very helpful, too, thank you!

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I wasn’t sure about a couple of sentences that haven’t been discussed yet (I think).
(page numbers are for the physical Bunko)

p. 21: ここの名前が「心の教室」なのが、なんだか申し訳なかった

I’m not sure how I should read this. Is she sorry (does she dislike it) that the スクール is called that, or does this mean that the name of the スクール feels like an excuse? Or does this mean something else entirely?

p. 25: こころの通っていた中学校となんら変わらなくて

This phrase is part of a long sentence that describes the behaviour of two girls at the スクール (if I understand correctly). Does なんら変わらない express that the situation with those girls is no different from (and therefore reminds her of) the situation at the middle school that Kokoro went to? Is that a correct interpretation?

p. 28: 自分のそんなわがままが通ると思っていなかったこころは戸惑った

If I understood it correctly, the paragraph before this sentence describes that she would often decline to meet her home room teacher when he would visit and that he didn’t make a problem of that.

In this sentence, I’m not sure which meaning of 通る is used and I’m having a hard time figuring out why 思っていなかった seems to be modifying Kokoro (Kokoro who didn’t think… what exactly?). I would expect that this sentence is saying that Kokoro is confused that they are letting her selfish behaviour slide, but I just can’t figure out how that fits with the grammar.

p. 29: 本当は会って、聞いてほしいことがたくさんある気もしたけれど、気を遣われているのが気まずくて、そうなってしまう

I have a hard time figuring out this sentence. I’m not even sure who the subject of the sentence is.

In the previous paragraph, I think it was described how two former class mates who came to visit (once or a few times?) have also abandoned her and I think that this sentence is saying that either Kokoro or those friends had a lot they wanted to ask, but it didn’t work out because the situation was too uncomfortable or something like that?

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Someone with more knowledge than me can feel free to correct anything I say here

Pg 25

なんら is listed by Jisho as (not) at all - the brackets imply its one of those words where the bracketed part is applied when used with a negative verb. And here 変わらなくて is negative thus is does apply. The と is marking what is being compared - how they were in middle school

Pg 28

Firstly, just a slight correction to the context - I think that part was talking specifically about the first time that happened. She had been meeting the teacher before then but one day her mother asked if she wanted to meet him and Kokoro said no - she was then surprised that her mother and the teacher both just accepted that (which is what this sentence is describing)
I think the meaning of 通る here is “to pass” but in a non-literal way - see entry 8 here. Kokoro being modified by the 思っていなかった tells us that Kokoro is the one doing the not thinking. What is she not thinking? That her selfishness would be permitted. It then makes that whole thing the topic by marking it with は and makes a comment about the topic - that she was bewildered

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@VikingSchism I agree with what you said.

p. 29

In the middle of this long sentence we see けれど so let’s try to break it up there:

本当は - To be honest,

会って、- when we met,

聞いてほしい - this can mean “(I) want you to hear” or “(I) want you to listen to” or “(I) want you to ask”. I don’t think it makes much difference for the current situation, so I would try to subsume this with “want to talk about”.

ことがたくさんある - there are many things

気もした - she had a hunch. This indicates that Kokoro is our topic because she can only say this in this direct way about herself, not about others. Also, what she has a hunch about, is not related to her but to the others (otherwise she would know or think, not “have a hunch”).

Putting this all together: “To be honest, when they met, Kokoro had a hunch that the girls wanted to talk about many things”

けれど、- but

気を遣われている - 気を遣う - Jisho.org I’d say “everybody is so cautious around her” (I think this is suffering passive by the way)

のが - nominalizer + subject particle

気まずくて、- 気まずい - Jisho.org was unpleasant / awkward

そうなってしまう - therefore it unfortunately became like that.

So the whole sentence would be:

To be honest, when they met, Kokoro had a hunch that the girls wanted to talk about many things, but because they were so cautious around her, this unfortunately became awkward.

I guess :sweat_smile:

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21

I did read it as the 申し訳ない applying to her - she felt ‘sorry’ (inadequate?) because the school’s name is also her name.

25

Yes.

29

It’s こころ. Really she wanted to meet and had a lot of things to talk about, but others being considerate of her/walking on eggshells around her makes her uncomfortable, so it became like that (=that she doesn’t meet with them).

@NicoleRauch I interpretated it as こころ being the one who had things to ask. The 気もした imo reads more like ‘I also felt like I wanted to meet and have them listen to a bunch of things, but’. Or maybe she wanted them to ask her a bunch of stuff and felt like they wouldn’t out of fear of making things worse, but I feel like that doesn’t really fit.

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I took this to the next level and asked my 先輩 about this, and she thinks that 気もした means “she has a hunch” and therefore it doesn’t make much sense if she had a hunch about her own desire. But I think the overall meaning doesn’t change too much one way or another anyway :upside_down_face:

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Well, native trumps. :smiley:

I can’t really read it anyway but ‘I feel like doing x’ here right now but I’ll revisit after work when I’ve more time.

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I read it as guilty

29

doesn’t mean てほしい must be talking about what こころ wants? it would have to say 聞いてほしたがる if her friends are wanting to talk, right? I interpreted the 気もした as her just being a bit unsure about whether she really wanted to meet to them.

I don’t think she ever met them.

my interpretation was:
本当は - In reality
会って、- meet and
(聞いてほしいことがたくさんある) - (kokoro) had lots of things she wanted to talk about
気もした - had a feeling/hunch/whatever. basically she’s unsure she really wanted to meet them
けれど、 - but
気を遣われているのが気まずくて、 - people being considerate felt bad so
そうなってしまう - it unfortunately became like this (they didn’t meet)

In reality, kokoro had a hunch that she (kokoro) wanted to meet them, but she’d feel unpleasant if they acted considerately, so in the end she didn’t.

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Oh, I completely missed this. I completely agree with this. Obviously, since your take matches mine. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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