かがみの孤城 Week 1

thanks, that puts my mind at ease, i’ll finish the chapter first then.

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7% response

Let’s break this down:

遅いから何してるか見てやろーよ、と - “she is late, let’s see what she is doing” said from the perspective of one of the bullies

横の個室から、彼女が身を屈めて自分を覗こうとしていたんだということ - From the stall next [to kokoro’s] she [the bully] was bending her body over (I think it is over but not 100% sure) to try and take a look at kokoro

後から、偶然様子を見ていた別のクラスメートに教えられて - referencing back to the previous part, kokoro was later taught about this by classmate that by chance saw what happened

恥ずかしさに顔が真っ赤になった。- in response to that: kokoro got red because she was embarassed

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Basically the gist it that こころ decides not to think about the possibility that 東条 might have been told by her teacher to meet and talk to こころ and she is still not doing it.

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What makes it a bit more difficult to follow is that she is not telling the story in a consistent timeline, but she constantly switches back to tell the reader about events in the past (e.g. how she saw the supermarket car only during the holidays when she was younger, and how she visited the new school). I sometimes mistake those switches as well.
So don’t worry and keep reading (and asking) :joy_cat:

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Summary

she never mentions that she’s looking at anything else outside. it’s all from the perspective of what she can hear is happening. she also never mentions that she closes the curtains, just that they’re (already) shut. the only 見るs are in the context of the sentence we’re talking about (again, not actually looking at anything), and her recounting the daily schedule of stuff happening outside her window

according to jisho, “in one’s own way or style​”. it seems to be covered by @ChristopherFritz’s link as well

we don’t know, except that it’s been a reasonably long time (long enough that the novelty has worn off and she’s feeling guilty

all the jumps in time and space and thought are giving me whiplash…it’s pretty easy to lose track of when she’s recounting the present, or when she’s thinking about something that happened, or she’s recounting what happens everyday…

心の教室 is the name of the “スクール”, which in this context seems to be distinct from a normal 学校 because it’s specifically for children who can’t cope with proper schools, if I’m reading this correctly

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And for some visual context, here's how the manga portrays it.

The one thing that’s helping me here is that I’m also listening to the audio book. The flashbacks are done in a “flashback tone”, for lack of a better word. (At my reading level,) I’d probably be very lost without the audio book and manga helping me along.

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it definitely implies that she keeps the the curtain closed to hide from the people in the park, and that includes the grocery truck. On page 16, it says 「十二時にはお昼ごはんのために、みんないったんそこからいなくなる。そうしたら、少しカーテンが開けられる」It also implies that she at least peeks through the curtains to keep track of what’s going on out there. Earlier on page 16, it says 「…親子…を見ると、「ああ、午前中もあとちょっとだ。」」

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question at 4%, end of the weekly reading part

家が離れているからか、東条さんが、他の友達と一緒でなく、一人でいることに少しだけ、救われた気持ちになる。

what does 救われた気持ちになる。 mean here?
if i understood correctly, she sees 東条さん alone all the time, because her house is far away (from the school, so friends dont visit?) and this gives her a feeling like she wants to rescue 東条さん (from loneliness)?

next one:
東条さんが、本当は先生たちから、自分に会ってくるように、話を聞いてくるようにと言われているかもしれないことについては、──そう言われてるのにもかかわらず、彼女がそうしないでいる可能性については、考えないようにする。

i cannot figure this sentence out at all, something about kojou-san being sent from her teachers to meet kokoro, but i can’t make sense of the rest.

overall it was way more readable knowing which school is which and that timeskips happen, it really clicked into place after i read the explanations here, so thanks for that.

spoilers

also, i keep thinking about how she described the home of toujou-san, how it felt larger, even though it was basically the same structure, because of all the books and paintings.
it’s just sad how you read about her love for fairy tales and how it made her heart flutter (with joy) seeing all these books in different languages and then right after she gets bullied for apparently no reason and the stomach aches start.
right now it looks like she doesn’t really do much as a result, has the tv on all day and doesn’t even really remember anything she watches as the days pass by, pretty depressing contrast, i wonder if she still reads at all.

definitely getting into the story more now.

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Are you reading a combined ebook by the way? Your percentages definitely seem lower than where they would be otherwise

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I asked about the same sentence and I think I’ve about got it now
東条さんが - Toujou-san
本当は - in truth (not sure why は and not に)
先生たちから - from the teachers
自分に会ってくるように - in order to come to meet (kokoro)
話を聞いてくるように - in order to listen to (kokoro’s) story?
と言われているかもしれないことについては - concerning that (Toujou-san) is probably being told to (the と here could do with some explanation from someone who understands better probably)
そう言われてるのにもかかわらず - in spite of being told such a thing
彼女がそうしないでいる可能性については - concerning the possibility of her not doing it
考えないようにする - (kokoro) tries not to think about it

I hope that helps give a rough understanding of the sentence at least, though there are definitely parts in here that I would like help clearing up too

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damn, thanks for the breakdown, even with it it takes a while to wrap my head around it, but yes this was very helpful.
i have the same question as you i guess, why the と after ように, or rather, why no phrase after ように, is she omitting the reason because it should be obvious from context?
like, the teachers most likely told her to meet her, listen to her story and after ように report back or something?

Are you reading a combined ebook by the way? Your percentages definitely seem lower than where they would be otherwise

i dont know honestly, it’s an alternatively obtained copy.

1 Like
Summary

yeah that’s all the stuff I said was the “daily schedule of what’s happening outside”. all of that is conditionals and hypotheticals (…を見ると思う and そうしたら、少しカーテンが開けられる). she’s saying if she looks and there’s all the mums and children outside, she knows it’s mid morning, and she’s saying if/when everyone leaves for lunch, then she feels she can open the curtain slighltly.

which takes me back to my original point: she’s not looking at the truck and she never mentions doing anything in order to see it (not even hypothetically), so I was confused by the discussion that was happening earlier.

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This ように isn’t followed by a reason, it’s this grammar point: 〜ように言う|日本語能力試験 JLPT N3 : 絵でわかる日本語
Basically, it’s a way of conveying a command in indirect speech (“The teachers told her to come to meet” etc). So the sentence conveys two “commands” the teachers possibly gave her, and they both share the same と言われている that follows after it. (The と is just emphasizing that it’s a quotation, in my opinion.)

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cheers, that makes sense.
i feel like there is an endless amount of different grammar points including よう at this point.
that website is really nice by the way, i’ve been clicking through a few grammar points in the past few minutes.

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Yes :joy_cat: And once you mastered those, there will be more endless streams of very-similar-but-not-quite-identical grammar points based on other words :flushed:
But don’t let that distress yourself. They‘ll come around when it’s time for them :muscle:

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4% response

Did anyone answer this one for you? I think it’s saying that こころ feels slightly saved by the fact that 東条 didn’t come with any of her friends. It’s saying “perhaps because their houses [referring to 東条 and 東条’s friends, not こころ] are far away from each other, 東条さん came without friends / alone, and because of that こころ feels a little saved”

こころ isn’t exactly on the best terms with some of 東条’s friends, so it makes sense that she wouldn’t want them stopping by her house. And remember that the previous sentences are about how 東条 is coming all business-like to bring the printouts from school even though こころ thought they could have been friends. So she’s coming from a position of being upset that 東条 doesn’t take that extra step of ringing the doorbell, but basically thinks “well at least she didn’t come with her friends”.

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I’m not sure until which part I should have read but judging from everyone’s comments it seems I stopped at the good place.

Like someone said before, it hard to follow because she always switches timelines and location but when you understand it, it gets easier to follow. It took a few pages to understand that kokoro was her name ha ha.
It’s definitely an interesting book so far and I’m surprised by the number of comments here. I’m not used to so much participation ha ha.

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It was a bit painful to see the reply count go up and not be able to read them! I guess I’ll need to make it a habit to read (even) earlier in the week, or on weekends instead. :joy:

Also, hi @denzo. I feel like it’s been since Haruhi.

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I’ve been away for the past few weeks and my copy is just sitting there in my mailbox. Seeing all the responses so far has me really impatient to get home and get started.

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I feel your pain. May you get to your copy in a timely fashion!

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Where (and how) could I get the audiobook? I tried to find it but failed miserably …

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It’s a bit expensive (on top of having bought the text version of the book), but it’s really well done. Separate voice actor for each character, sound effects, occasional music. You can hear a trailer of sorts on the product page, as well.

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