かがみの孤城 Week 1

Japanese Language Reading
#107

:rofl: My favorite is how just about every game and movie is “reminiscent of a Ghibli film”. I mean, there also might be some truth to that given the studio’s influence. Seeing コンビニ comparisons is actually a nice change of pace!

I’m also excited about the level of participation! And it’s coming from a group of only 27 as opposed to the hundred or so that might start a pick in the BBC. I don’t ask nearly as many questions as I should and I learn a lot more when I ask/answer/read.

I’m only 8 pages in but so far I really like the writing style (maybe partially because it’s easy :slightly_smiling_face:). If this week is any indication, then reading this along with 地球星人 might just be bookclub nirvana. Hopefully the content sparks the same level of discussion that we’ve seen on some Murata picks.

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#108

can’t say I noticed anything like that when I was reading it :thinking:

I’m pretty sure most of it is just in third person (but it’s harder to tell because so much gets omitted) - I had a quick skim through and I was more suprised by the bits in first person that were inline (e.g. 私は、みんなに気を使われている)

japanese narrative does seem to align more closely with the character than in english though, so it doesn’t feel out of place to me…

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#109

quote=“denzo, post:108, topic:54196”]
so it doesn’t feel out of place to me…
[/quote]

I didn’t notice it either. I suppose it fits right in since everything is completely from her pov anyway. :slight_smile: ​Are there more places than the one already quoted in this week’s part?

I considered it might be to show that she directly thought this in that moment. At first the fact that this part was in present tense seemed to support that, but then right after we had some 3rd person sentences that also we’re in present tense. I guess it’s just not such a strict rule in Japanese.

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#110

Thank you everyone for the insightful answers to my questions!

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#111

I haven’t gone back to read the sentence in context so I don’t know what position I’d take on the whole, but I don’t think it has to be ほしたがる if something speculative comes afterward, like と思う or 気がする. たがる gives distance, I feel like, with not assuming you know for sure what the other person wants, but with 気がする already providing that distance, I think it can be ほしい even for someone else.

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#112

Yes, I think so to. But I also think that for this sentence @denzo’s interpretation fits best and the ほしい is describing Kokoro’s own feelings.

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#113

I see where you’re coming from. Something like らしい works, but 気がする somehow feels too personal to me… Like it’s talking directly about your own experience? I dunno, I guess 気がする doesn’t really give me a sense of distance. It’s very うち, so to speak and I can’t say I’ve ever come across it used the way you’re suggesting. I’d be interested if you have an example of it though

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#114

Someone started a list of name pronunciations, but I can’t find it. Could an administrator add that to the first post of this thread, pretty please?

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#115

i can’t edit the first post, but it’s in the home thread. first post of that is probably a better place for it

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#116

It feels like forever since I’ve read from an actual book in Japanese (tough year would be an understatement), but I have more time now and I’d been interested in this book so hopefully I can keep up with a bookclub again.
Finished this week’s reading yesterday. Felt harder than usual, probably since I’m out of practice and there were a lot of jumps in the narration, but I’ve enjoyed it and I think it’ll get easier quickly.

This part was really sad and brought back old memories, but I’m really curious to know more about the story. Pretty excited to be reading again! And there seems to me a lot of participation which is always nice.

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#117

Thanks, I’ve bookmarked it!

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#118

To close off this week I just read this week’s part in the English edition.

Here’s how the translator (Philip Gabriel) handled some of the sentences that were discussed.

Regarding the bit at the start where Kokoro’s body is rigid: in the translation the curtains are drawn (so not pulled back) and Kokoro hears (not sees) the the truck. The full sentence in the translation: “She’d never listened to it so intently - on a weekday, in her bedroom, curtains drawn, her body rigid”, but I think he’s also taking some liberties there.

Regarding the part where Kokoro says 「行けない」he translates the 精一杯 bit as ‘Kokoro was finally able, with great effort, to mutter a response’.

Regarding the 申し訳 on p. 21, he translates it to Kokoro feeling awkward about the スクール’s name.

By the way, the translator interestingly added that the School is ‘a sort of children’s counselling centre and alternative school’ (an explanation that is not in the original).

Regarding the ほしい on p. 29, the translator also attributes it to Kokoro: Kokoro feels that there is so much she wanted to say (but ‘making them feel obliged to come over made her uncomfortable’ - I think the translator also had trouble translating 気を使われている :upside_down_face:).

I also learned that I had misread the part before it: her old classmates did not abandon her, Kokoro refused to meet them :man_facepalming:

Regarding the bit at 6% about the floor plan of Tojo’s house, the translator chose to say that Kokoro got the impression that it had been designed with Tojo’s family specifically in mind.

Regarding the 身を屈めて bit at 7% the translator writes that Sanada was crouching down (watching Kokoro from below).

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#119

Not surprising that the translator had to add something. How do you differentiate them in English when 学校 and スクール are both “school”? It’s an interesting choice though.

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#120

Yes, quite understandable. He also explicitly adds that everyone refers to the alternative school by the English word ‘School’. I think he’s probably going to call it “the alternative school” to make the distinction clear.

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#121

Yay! This is what made sense to me, because it is in てform, so, not modifying じぶん

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#122

I have a question about the following sentence from page 16 of the two volume set.

平日午前中の十一時というのがこういう時間なんだということを、こころは学校を休むようになって初めて知った。

Is it saying something along the lines of: she remembered the first time that she stayed home past 11 o’clock on a weekday morning? After trying a couple times I still can’t sort out the grammar of this sentence.

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#123

It’s important to know that 知る refers to the moment something was learned/realized. The same is true when used in the past tense. So the part before を is what she first learned after she started staying home from school.

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#124

Ohhh … so … she first learned that this is what it’s like at eleven on a weekday morning when she started staying home from school? Is that closer?

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#125

Yep, you got it!

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#126

Wow! Thank you so much!!

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