夜カフェ ☕ Chapter 10 (Beginner Book Club)

Japanese Language Book Clubs
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夜カフェ :coffee: Chapter 10 (Beginner Book Club)

Start date current chapter: 11 June 2022
Previous chapter: Chapter 9
Next chapter: Chapter 11
Home thread: 夜カフェ Book Club Home Thread
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We are reading the first volume of 夜カフェ as the Beginner Book Club!.
This thread is for chapter related discussion. We are reading together from the aforementioned date on, but this thread will be kept open mu~ch longer (like 10 years longer). So don’t be shy to ask questions even if you are late to the party :heart:

Vocabulary List

Feel free to add any words you looked up as well! Page numbers may be off by one or two because of differences between physical and digital editions, but we try to keep the words roughly in order of appearance

The book is also available over at koohi.cafe (formerly known as floflo).

Discussion Guidelines

  • Please blur / hide any major events in the current week’s pages (however early they occur), like so: [spoiler]texthere[/spoiler] result: texthere
  • When asking for help, please mention the page number, and check before posting that your question hasn’t already been asked
  • Join the conversation — it’s fun!

Participation poll

  • I’m reading along
  • I’m planning to read but haven’t started yet
  • I’m from the future and reading way later
  • I’ve read ahead already/read the book before
  • I’m not reading, just passing by

0 voters

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By the time we finish this book, we’ll know exactly how to make diy stuff it seems.

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I was going to ask a question, but I ended up doing a bit of research before posting and I think I found the answer. Still, my brain is struggling to read this sentence naturally and I think this is the first time I’ve seen this structure, so I’ll share it.

Page 129:
ひとりで食べるときは、味や量より、お腹を満(み)たすための食事になりがちだ。

I was confused by the なりがち part. It seems that adding ～がち to the stem of a verb expresses that something is likely or prone to occur. Tae Kim has some examples. So I had initially read this sentence as something that always happens when you eat alone (the meal becomes…), but now I understand it as something that tends to happen (the meal tends to become…).

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Thoughts on the chapter

I really enjoyed this chapter! Hanabi dreams up grand plans - we’ll finally get our Night Cafe (although I guess it’s more like an Evening Cafe?) soon. I like that Hanabi is thinking about helping others who have problems like her - although I guess part of that is probably because she just enjoys spending time with them, haha. And Tina is being really friendly, even wanting to move in! Pity that might not work out, but now she’s championing Hanabi’s idea even more, so I’m looking forward to where that leads. Seems like there’ll be a lot of problems to solve first.

Per usual, I have questions. (Seems like I’m the only one this week?)

ebook page 113:

  • リサちゃんは愛子さんのうちに来て、ヤマト君が作ったレタスチャーハンを、「おいしい、おいしい。」と言って、あっというまにたいらげた。 夕ごはんは用意されているみたいだけど、「あまり食べたくない。」と言う。
    Is this about how earlier, Risa was really happy about eating what Yamato made, but now that “it appears that dinner is ready”, she doesn’t feel like eating anymore? I’m also a bit confused that Hanabi says afterwards she understands that, from her experience eating alone. Risa isn’t going to eat alone, right?
  • パパはいないとだけ、リサちゃんは言った。
    Is the とだけ the quotation marker と, and then だけ because she only said that and nothing more? Or is there some other grammar construction going on here?

ebook page 114:

  • そこへ──。
    Is that something like “And then, later.”? As in, we’re jumping forward in time, and now Risa-chans mother is here?

ebook page 117:

  • だから、おそくなる日は、うちであずかってもいいですよって言ったんだけど、それは申し訳ないって、ずいぶんえんりょされてたわ……。
    Is the “それは申し訳ないって、ずいぶんえんりょされてたわ” something like “But her mother said “sorry”, and I/my offer was completely declined”?
  • 「うちのおやじとは、ぜんぜんちがうな。」ヤマト君がボソッとつぶやく。
    Also a bit confused by that. The offer was just for Risa to stay over when the mother is away, right? How does that compare to his father? Or is it more about how his father doesn’t mind at all that the “burden” of having Yamato over is pushed to Aiko?
  • とにかく協力できることがあったら、してあげたいわ。あんたたちもよろしくね。
    What’s the meaning of the “あんたたちもよろしくね。”? Is it something like “You’re also welcome to help”?
Stuff I learnt

ebook page 114:

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Page 113

In the first passage, the first sentence is saying how much Lisa (Risa? Aerith? Aeris?) enjoyed eating Yamato’s food. The second one talks out how she has dinner prepared for her, but she doesn’t really enjoy eating it. Probably her mom leaves dinner ready for her. I believe later on, Hanabi mentions that she sympathizes because eating alone is no fun.

You got it on the second passage.

Page 117

For the first passage, I’d say it’s the third one in the first definition in Jisho. She’s saying she would feel bad/guilty if she took Aiko up on her offer. えんりょ does mean “decline”, but I also feel like it’s more of a sense of declining someone’s offer to do you a favor, rather than refusing to grant someone’s request. I could be wrong about that though.

For the second passage, I think you got it. His dad doesn’t mind pushing him off to someone else, unlike Risa’s mom.

For the third passage, I’d say it’s more like “I’m counting on you to help too”.

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I could be wrong, but I think the dinner already being prepared doesn’t mean the one at Aiko-san’s house, but rather that Risa-chan already had dinner prepared at her house but didn’t really want to eat it, presumably because she probably feels much like Hanabi does, in not wanting to eat alone. That’s why she eats what Yamato-kun prepares with such gusto (or, to borrow the Japanese phrase because it is adorable, and I love it: “in the time it takes to say, “Ah”.”). She didn’t eat the dinner that was prepared for her at home, because she didn’t particularly feel hungry, but once she was around other people, the desire to eat kicked in, much like Hanabi clear back in the first chapter, where she didn’t particularly want to eat the karaage bento, but once she was at Aiko’s house, similarly discovered she actually did want to eat. She just didn’t want to do so alone.

That is how I interpreted it, as well.

Yeah, I interpreted it as a time skip also.

I think that is close, but I read the latter half as though it was the same implied subject (the mom), so:

“She was very hesitant, and said, “I’m sorry/I feel guilty.””

Japanese doesn’t really directly reject things very often, and I think you have to pick one subject in the sentence the way it is phrased, anyway.

Maybe others disagree?

I took it as the latter theory you posited, especially since I interpreted the えんりょ differently than you. Yamato-kun’s dad wasn’t hesitant at all, whereas Risa-chan’s mother is.

Again, kinda. よろしく is always tricky to translate, but I felt it was more like the, “I’ll be counting on you.” meaning. Overall: “Anyway, if there is anything I can do to help, I would like to. I’ll be counting on you two also.”

(@aamunoz beat me to it, but I’m already done typing, so I’m gonna post anyway. :stuck_out_tongue:)

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えんりょis a socially acceptable way to reject a favor/offer. It is definitely more than mere hesitation, it is non-acceptance. Less “hesitation,” and more “the self control to resist a tempting offer.”
Which is why, if someone wants you to accept their offering, they just start out by saying 「えんりょしないで、○○」, where ○○ is the offer.

I gathered, from ずいぶん、that there were several rounds of offers and “no thanks” involved.

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Thanks for the explanations!

Especially the dinner thing felt really weird, but with Risa having dinner prepared at her home, everything makes perfect sense.

Yeah, I love that phrase too! I immediately added it to my Anki deck the first time I encountered it.

And it seems like my interpretation of Aiko’s offer to look after Risa being rejected wasn’t too far off.

Here’s some more questions!

ebook page 118:

  • 「たとえば、の話。」
    たとえば is “for example”, but… の話? Is the の connecting たとえば and 話? What does the sentence mean?
  • 反対されないように、すばやく答える。
    Is that (literally) “I answered quickly so that no objections could be done to me.”?
  • イラストの仕事と、夕方までのカフェとで、かなりキツいのが現実なの。
    I think the first と is an “and”, and the で of とで is the “reason” で particle, but what’s that と of とで? Is と…と… some sort of grammar pattern?

ebook page 119:

  • 翌日、学校に行っても、頭の中は、『みんなが集まって、ごはんを食べる場所』のことでいっぱいだった。
    I’m a bit confused by the で there. I feel like a が would’ve worked well there… after all, のこと makes the preceding thing a noun, and it’s the thing that is いっぱいだった, right? Feel free to ignore that question, as I think have absolutely no trouble understanding the sentence, but I wonder if there’s some grammar/pattern I could learn here, that’s why I’m asking. (The Handbook actually has ことで, but that one is “used with verbs that refer to the act of speaking”, so it doesn’t quite fit.)
  • 体育の時間に、ヤヤコたちにからかわれたみたいだけど、それさえ覚えていないほど、ほかのことはなにも気にならない。
    Is that それさえ覚えていないほど “to the point that I don’t even remember that”?
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ebook page 118

  • It means that the 話 she’s about to do is a たとえば type of 話. A “for example…” type of conversation. In other words, she is going to present a hypothetical situation. This is where she brings up the idea of the place where people can gather and eat food.
  • Yup!

ebook page 119

  • I think it’s definition 3 in Jisho. “My head was filled with ‘a place where people gather and eat food’.”
  • Yup!
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This is the listing と. It often appears after every item on a (complete) list of things connected with “and”, although sometimes it is omitted from the last item. So “with both work and the cafe…”

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I haven’t even read past the first page yet! Glad you are asking, it’ll help me catch up.

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As always, thanks for your help, everyone! I finally finished the chapter, and here’s my last batch of questions:

ebook page 121:

  • 学校では禁止されてるから、子ども同士で入るのははじめてで、あたしはまわりを見回しながら、ドキドキしている。
    Is that saying that it’s forbidden to go to that burger restaurant during school break?
  • わたしさ、ほんとは、きょうもまた愛子さんちに行きたいなって思ってるの。
    What is that な there? The って is the quoting particle and not part of it, right?

ebook page 122:
愛子さんに聞いてみなきゃわからないけど、正直言うと、空いてる部屋はもうないの。

  • I assume that 聞いてみなきゃわからない is short for 聞いてみなければわからない. Is that basically “if I don’t ask and see what the result is, I don’t know”?

ebook page 123:

  • 自分のことやヤマト君やティナちゃんのこともきっかけになって、カフェのような、みんなでいっしょにごはんを食べられる場所を作れたらいいなって思ったことなどを話した。
    Again a なって思う! But this time I think the な might be the 6th definition on jisho.org - “right?; isn’t it?; doesn’t it?; don’t you?; don’t you think?”?
  • 「だめだめ。かんたんにあきらめちゃ。しっかり考えようよ。」
    Is あきらめちゃ short for あきらめてはいけない?
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Page 121

  1. I didn’t know what this meant either, but I forgot to ask about it, so thanks for asking! I was wondering how a school could possibly forbid students from going to a restaurant. I feel like I’ve seen some kind of rule depicted in an anime where students had to go straight home after school, rather than going places in their school uniform. Something about their actions reflecting poorly on the school if they misbehave. I may be misremembering that though, and there’s no guarantee that this is the same case. Your theory makes more sense, but I wonder if middle school students are allowed to leave the school during lunch in Japan in the first place.
  2. The って is not part of it. It’s part of the statement she is quoting. It’s for emphasis. See definition 4 in Jisho.

Page 122: Yup, pretty much!

Page 123

  1. I believe this is also definition 4. Hanabi doesn’t speak in a Kansai dialect, so I don’t think it would be definition 6. And, since she’s saying this is a thought she had, she wouldn’t really be seeking confirmation.
  2. I think you’re right that ちゃ = ては based on the other forms listed for ては in Jisho, but I don’t think there’s a dropped いけない afterward. I think this sentence is reversed. The normal way would be かんたんにあきらめちゃだめ。I don’t know what exactly the purpose of reversing the sentence like that is, but I’ve seen it before.
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Ah, I didn’t know that てはだめ was a thing! That makes sense, then.

Thanks for the answers!

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In another book I was reading [1], a middle school student had gone to an arcade in town and ended up getting robbed by some high school students. The school disciplined him though, because it was a school rule that students of the school were not to visit that arcade. Not at break, at any time. Like you say, my impression is that students are expected to represent the school at all times, and to regulate their behaviour accordingly. [2]

I don’t know about that (probably not?), but if I remember correctly, I think it was after school, not at lunch break?

Emphasis, and just normal speech. She starts by reacting with だめだめ, then continues to explain what that だめ refers to.

だめ and いけない basically mean the same thing, more or less. The expression is flexible, you can find any negative expression in place of いけない after ては or なければ, it’s just that いけない is probably the most common.

  1. 告白 ↩︎

  2. a teacher was even supposed to pick him up from the police station after the incident, not a parent. ↩︎

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Yeah, it was after school. I was commenting on the theory that what was disallowed by the school was going to the restaurant during school break.

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I can’t seem to find this part, could you please tell me the exact phrase?

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「あっというまに」is the phrase. :grin:

Though, I usually see it with the kanji: あっという間に, seems the author decided kana was good enough here. :stuck_out_tongue:

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The thing that gets full is いっぱい
お腹がいっぱいだ。
頭な中はいっぱいだった。

The thing that is filling it up is marked with で:

お腹がパンでいっぱいだ。
頭の中は○○のことでいっぱいだった。

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Aaaah! In my mind, いっぱい was very similar to 多い. That makes a lot more sense now, thanks!

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